[Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Mon Jan 2 09:52:36 PST 2012
On 01/02/2012 09:42 AM, Sunil Ramalingam wrote:
> Waiyne,
>
> I said 'currently' because right now, Obama would end up leaving gay
> marriage to the states, as he does not yet support it. Once he does
> (as I expect him to eventually) then his position will be different.
>
> Ron Paul's position is bigoted, I think. Obama's is cowardly, as he's
> still afraid to lose bigots' votes. The 'I support civil unions but
> not gay marriage' position is a silly split-the-baby attempt to
> placate both sides. Gay rights is the only place I see Obama behaving
> like a progressive, and I think he and his team have decided it won't
> hurt him; I think it's a bone they've decided they can throw the left.
>
> But here we are, again discussing anything but Obama's foreign
> policies again.
Or his stance on civil liberties and the power grabs of the Executive
branch.
Paul
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: deco at moscow.com
> To: Vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 23:00:45 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
>
>
> Their positions are not quite the same.
> http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/Profiles/House/Texas/Ron_Paul/Views/Gay_Marriage/
> http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/12/obama-the-courts-and-gay-marriage.html
> Paul's mind is made up.
> Obama says his is still open.
> w.
>
> *From:* Sunil Ramalingam <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 01, 2012 7:30 PM
> *Cc:* vision 2020 <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> Neither of us were talking about DADT, we were talking about their
> positions on gay marriage, and as far as I know, Obama is not
> currently in favor of gay marriage. He has come out against the
> Defense of Marriage Act, but that would simply leave things to each
> state, which I believe is Paul's position.
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> From: thansen at moscow.com <mailto:thansen at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 17:54:18 -0800
> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>
> Obama repealed "Don't Ask, Don't Tell".
>
> Ron Paul stated more than once, during the debates, that he would not
> repeal DADT.
>
> Seeya later, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Spokane, Washington
>
> "If not us, who?
> If not now, when?"
>
> - Unknown
>
> On Jan 1, 2012, at 5:47 PM, Sunil Ramalingam
> <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> So currently is his position any different than Obama's? Is the
> only difference that Obama's position is 'evolving,' perhaps with
> the benefit of polling?
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: deco at moscow.com <mailto:deco at moscow.com>
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 14:25:02 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> Kelly,
> Here in a nutshell is Ron Paul's position on gay marriage:
> As a lifelong Christian, he is personally against it. He is
> against any federal legislation on this issue, but for allowing
> each state to decide the issue themselves.
> Needless to say, besides most likely leading to the denial of gays
> to marry in many states, the legal morasses created by allowing
> gay marriage in some states and not allowing it or not recognizing
> it in other states are horrifying to contemplate.
> w.
>
> *From:* keely emerinemix <mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 31, 2011 10:14 PM
> *To:* sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> Being a racist doesn't mean he's wrong on these issues, Sunil --
> but it means that, as Ron Paul (if he is, in fact, a racist), he
> should be applauded for those views he holds that are correct and
> challenged on any that you, I, or anyone else disagrees with. It
> doesn't mean he ought to run for office, or that we ought to vote
> for him.
>
> There are plenty of people, I imagine, who are right about the
> issues you mention below who aren't bigots, and who -- perhaps
> more germane to the conversation -- wouldn't gut the social
> services that make this country not only habitable (imperfect and
> imperfectly delivered as they are), but moral. I think you and I
> see the defense/national security issues fairly similarly, and we
> likely also applaud Paul's views on legalizing marijuana, gay
> marriage, and maybe a couple of other issues. Nonetheless, even
> those areas on which I agree with Paul -- the ones I just
> mentioned and the ones you did -- aren't enough for me either to
> vote for him, or overlook what at least the most fervent Paul
> supporter would acknowledge was carelessness in letting bigots
> crank out his newsletter.
>
> The cumulative effect of Paul's economic and some of his social
> policies will harm more people -- people already marginalized and
> suffering -- than the hundreds of thousands this and the previous
> war-courting administrations have. Do I take any comfort in that?
>
> No. Not at all. But I have to vote for the man who seems to have
> more, better answers than the one who has one or two good ones.
> And I can't afford to combine the worst of both Obama and Paul by
> risking the horror of, say, a Perry or Bachmann presidency.
>
> Thanks, Sunil.
>
> Keely
> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com <http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 18:12:36 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> Let's for one moment assume that Paul is a racist. I'm not saying
> he is, just assume he is so that issue doesn't need to be
> discussed for a minute.
>
> Is he wrong on ending our wars? Is he wrong on cutting the defense
> budget? Is he wrong about the Patriot Act? Is he wrong about the
> Executive Branch seizing powers it should not have?
>
> What say you, Keely, Wayne, Saundra, Tom?
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 17:20:01 -0800
> From: godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
> To: deco at moscow.com <mailto:deco at moscow.com>
> CC: Vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
>
> He has admitted to putting out an investment newsletter that (as
> far as I can tell) was not one of the newsletters that printed the
> racist comments. It had all sorts of conspiracy theories about
> what will happen to people trying to deal in large amounts of
> cash, most of which have come true - just not in the way he
> thought. Try taking a large pile of cash through airport security
> and see how well that goes.
>
> Another distraction attempt, supposedly a smoking gun, apparently
> succeeds in its goals. Or maybe this is just jumping on the
> bandwagon, since it is the Daily Mail, after all.
>
> Paul
>
> On 12/31/2011 04:44 PM, Art Deco wrote:
>
> See:
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078217/Ron-Paul-racist-homophobic-newsletters-Video-taking-credit.html
> Scroll down to see the videos of Paul Himself acknowledging
> the letters, etc.
> All javascript scripts must be allowed in order to see the
> whole article including the videos.
> w.
>
> *From:* Paul Rumelhart <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 31, 2011 3:52 PM
> *To:* keely emerinemix <mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com>
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
>
> Does it matter whether or not the allegations are true? Or do
> we just call them out anyway?
>
> Here is an article from CBS News about the newsletters:
> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57345702-503544/ron-paul-disavows-racist-newsletters-under-his-name/
>
> The article contains a quote by Ron Paul on the issue:
>
> "When I was out of Congress and practicing medicine full-time,
> a newsletter was published under my name that I did not edit.
> Several writers contributed to the product," he said. "For
> over a decade, I have publicly taken moral responsibility for
> not paying closer attention to what went out under my name."
>
> I'd hate to see the man dragged over the coals for something
> he might not have deserved solely because (for example) Jon
> Huntsman is losing to Ron Paul in New Hampshire and has staked
> his campaign on a strong showing there.
>
> I got that last bit from this article:
> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57349712-503544/huntsman-calls-ron-paul-unelectable-because-of-racist-newsletters/
>
> And once again, this is only out there in order to distract
> us. These people could care less if it's even true. It's
> just convenient.
>
> Paul
>
> On 12/31/2011 02:44 PM, keely emerinemix wrote:
>
> I don't think you're defending racism, racist behavior, or
> even the wrongness of screaming "He's a racist!" at the
> slightest apparent provocation. That said, I think it's
> imperative that legitimate indications that an
> individual's views on race/gender/class/civil
> rights/culture are bigoted be called out, examined, and
> condemned -- and I believe that the text of Ron Paul's
> newsletters are an example.
>
> Keely
> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
> <http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:41:13 -0800
> From: jborden at datawedge.com <mailto:jborden at datawedge.com>
> To: kjajmix1 at msn.com <mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com>;
> v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm <mailto:v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>;
> vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>
> I’m not **defending** racism, I’m commenting on the mere
> finger-pointing and accusations being so charged that it’s
> a nuclear weapon in a political arsenal.
>
> It’s used as a tool for distraction, and hence,
> theatrics. (And, unless I missed the mark, perhaps Mr.
> Rumelhart’s point).
>
> Insert story of “crying wolf”.
>
> Jay
>
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