[Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
Wayne Price
bear at moscow.com
Mon Jan 2 11:31:53 PST 2012
Or even more importantly to me, he made a campaign PROMISE to close
Guantanamo.
Who is he going to blame for that?
Wayne
On Jan 2, 2012, at 9:52 AM, Paul Rumelhart wrote:
> On 01/02/2012 09:42 AM, Sunil Ramalingam wrote:
>>
>> Waiyne,
>>
>> I said 'currently' because right now, Obama would end up leaving
>> gay marriage to the states, as he does not yet support it. Once he
>> does (as I expect him to eventually) then his position will be
>> different.
>>
>> Ron Paul's position is bigoted, I think. Obama's is cowardly, as
>> he's still afraid to lose bigots' votes. The 'I support civil
>> unions but not gay marriage' position is a silly split-the-baby
>> attempt to placate both sides. Gay rights is the only place I see
>> Obama behaving like a progressive, and I think he and his team have
>> decided it won't hurt him; I think it's a bone they've decided they
>> can throw the left.
>>
>> But here we are, again discussing anything but Obama's foreign
>> policies again.
>
> Or his stance on civil liberties and the power grabs of the
> Executive branch.
>
> Paul
>
>>
>> Sunil
>>
>> From: deco at moscow.com
>> To: Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 23:00:45 -0800
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Their positions are not quite the same.
>>
>> http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/Profiles/House/Texas/Ron_Paul/Views/Gay_Marriage/
>>
>> http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/12/obama-the-courts-and-gay-marriage.html
>>
>> Paul's mind is made up.
>>
>> Obama says his is still open.
>>
>> w.
>>
>> From: Sunil Ramalingam
>> Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 7:30 PM
>> Cc: vision 2020
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>>
>> Neither of us were talking about DADT, we were talking about their
>> positions on gay marriage, and as far as I know, Obama is not
>> currently in favor of gay marriage. He has come out against the
>> Defense of Marriage Act, but that would simply leave things to each
>> state, which I believe is Paul's position.
>>
>> Sunil
>>
>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> From: thansen at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 17:54:18 -0800
>> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>>
>> Obama repealed "Don't Ask, Don't Tell".
>>
>> Ron Paul stated more than once, during the debates, that he would
>> not repeal DADT.
>>
>> Seeya later, Moscow.
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>> Spokane, Washington
>>
>> "If not us, who?
>> If not now, when?"
>>
>> - Unknown
>>
>> On Jan 1, 2012, at 5:47 PM, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>> So currently is his position any different than Obama's? Is the
>> only difference that Obama's position is 'evolving,' perhaps with
>> the benefit of polling?
>>
>> Sunil
>>
>> From: deco at moscow.com
>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 14:25:02 -0800
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>>
>> Kelly,
>>
>> Here in a nutshell is Ron Paul's position on gay marriage:
>>
>> As a lifelong Christian, he is personally against it. He is
>> against any federal legislation on this issue, but for allowing
>> each state to decide the issue themselves.
>>
>> Needless to say, besides most likely leading to the denial of gays
>> to marry in many states, the legal morasses created by allowing gay
>> marriage in some states and not allowing it or not recognizing it
>> in other states are horrifying to contemplate.
>>
>> w.
>>
>> From: keely emerinemix
>> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 10:14 PM
>> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>>
>> Being a racist doesn't mean he's wrong on these issues, Sunil --
>> but it means that, as Ron Paul (if he is, in fact, a racist), he
>> should be applauded for those views he holds that are correct and
>> challenged on any that you, I, or anyone else disagrees with. It
>> doesn't mean he ought to run for office, or that we ought to vote
>> for him.
>>
>> There are plenty of people, I imagine, who are right about the
>> issues you mention below who aren't bigots, and who -- perhaps more
>> germane to the conversation -- wouldn't gut the social services
>> that make this country not only habitable (imperfect and
>> imperfectly delivered as they are), but moral. I think you and I
>> see the defense/national security issues fairly similarly, and we
>> likely also applaud Paul's views on legalizing marijuana, gay
>> marriage, and maybe a couple of other issues. Nonetheless, even
>> those areas on which I agree with Paul -- the ones I just mentioned
>> and the ones you did -- aren't enough for me either to vote for
>> him, or overlook what at least the most fervent Paul supporter
>> would acknowledge was carelessness in letting bigots crank out his
>> newsletter.
>>
>> The cumulative effect of Paul's economic and some of his social
>> policies will harm more people -- people already marginalized and
>> suffering -- than the hundreds of thousands this and the previous
>> war-courting administrations have. Do I take any comfort in that?
>>
>> No. Not at all. But I have to vote for the man who seems to have
>> more, better answers than the one who has one or two good ones.
>> And I can't afford to combine the worst of both Obama and Paul by
>> risking the horror of, say, a Perry or Bachmann presidency.
>>
>> Thanks, Sunil.
>>
>> Keely
>> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>>
>>
>> From: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 18:12:36 -0800
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>>
>> Let's for one moment assume that Paul is a racist. I'm not saying
>> he is, just assume he is so that issue doesn't need to be discussed
>> for a minute.
>>
>> Is he wrong on ending our wars? Is he wrong on cutting the defense
>> budget? Is he wrong about the Patriot Act? Is he wrong about the
>> Executive Branch seizing powers it should not have?
>>
>> What say you, Keely, Wayne, Saundra, Tom?
>>
>> Sunil
>>
>> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 17:20:01 -0800
>> From: godshatter at yahoo.com
>> To: deco at moscow.com
>> CC: Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>>
>>
>> He has admitted to putting out an investment newsletter that (as
>> far as I can tell) was not one of the newsletters that printed the
>> racist comments. It had all sorts of conspiracy theories about
>> what will happen to people trying to deal in large amounts of cash,
>> most of which have come true - just not in the way he thought. Try
>> taking a large pile of cash through airport security and see how
>> well that goes.
>>
>> Another distraction attempt, supposedly a smoking gun, apparently
>> succeeds in its goals. Or maybe this is just jumping on the
>> bandwagon, since it is the Daily Mail, after all.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On 12/31/2011 04:44 PM, Art Deco wrote:
>> See:
>>
>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078217/Ron-Paul-racist-homophobic-newsletters-Video-taking-credit.html
>>
>> Scroll down to see the videos of Paul Himself acknowledging the
>> letters, etc.
>>
>> All javascript scripts must be allowed in order to see the whole
>> article including the videos.
>>
>> w.
>>
>> From: Paul Rumelhart
>> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 3:52 PM
>> To: keely emerinemix
>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>>
>>
>> Does it matter whether or not the allegations are true? Or do we
>> just call them out anyway?
>>
>> Here is an article from CBS News about the newsletters: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57345702-503544/ron-paul-disavows-racist-newsletters-under-his-name/
>>
>> The article contains a quote by Ron Paul on the issue:
>>
>> "When I was out of Congress and practicing medicine full-time, a
>> newsletter was published under my name that I did not edit. Several
>> writers contributed to the product," he said. "For over a decade, I
>> have publicly taken moral responsibility for not paying closer
>> attention to what went out under my name."
>>
>> I'd hate to see the man dragged over the coals for something he
>> might not have deserved solely because (for example) Jon Huntsman
>> is losing to Ron Paul in New Hampshire and has staked his campaign
>> on a strong showing there.
>>
>> I got that last bit from this article: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57349712-503544/huntsman-calls-ron-paul-unelectable-because-of-racist-newsletters/
>>
>> And once again, this is only out there in order to distract us.
>> These people could care less if it's even true. It's just
>> convenient.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On 12/31/2011 02:44 PM, keely emerinemix wrote:
>> I don't think you're defending racism, racist behavior, or even the
>> wrongness of screaming "He's a racist!" at the slightest apparent
>> provocation. That said, I think it's imperative that legitimate
>> indications that an individual's views on race/gender/class/civil
>> rights/culture are bigoted be called out, examined, and condemned
>> -- and I believe that the text of Ron Paul's newsletters are an
>> example.
>>
>> Keely
>> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>>
>>
>> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:41:13 -0800
>> From: jborden at datawedge.com
>> To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm; vision2020 at moscow.com
>>
>> I’m not *defending* racism, I’m commenting on the mere finger-
>> pointing and accusations being so charged that it’s a nuclear
>> weapon in a political arsenal.
>>
>>
>> It’s used as a tool for distraction, and hence, theatrics. (And,
>> unless I missed the mark, perhaps Mr. Rumelhart’s point).
>>
>>
>> Insert story of “crying wolf”.
>>
>>
>> Jay
>>
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