[Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism

Mon Jan 2 09:42:28 PST 2012

Waiyne,

I said 'currently' because right now, Obama would end up leaving gay marriage to the states, as he does not yet support it. Once he does (as I expect him to eventually) then his position will be different.

Ron Paul's position is bigoted, I think. Obama's is cowardly, as he's still afraid to lose bigots' votes. The 'I support civil unions but not gay marriage' position is a silly split-the-baby attempt to placate both sides. Gay rights is the only place I see Obama behaving like a progressive, and I think he and his team have decided it won't hurt him; I think it's a bone they've decided they can throw the left.

But here we are, again discussing anything but Obama's foreign policies again.

Sunil

From: deco at moscow.com
To: Vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 23:00:45 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw:  On Ron Paul and Racism

Their positions are not quite the same.

http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/Profiles/House/Texas/Ron_Paul/Views/Gay_Marriage/

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/12/obama-the-courts-and-gay-marriage.html

Paul's mind is made up.

Obama says his is still open.

w.

From: Sunil Ramalingam 
Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 7:30 PM
Cc: vision 2020 
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and 
Racism

Neither of us were talking about DADT, we were talking about their 
positions on gay marriage, and as far as I know, Obama is not currently in favor 
of gay marriage. He has come out against the Defense of Marriage Act, but that 
would simply leave things to each state, which I believe is Paul's 
position.

Sunil

CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
From: thansen at moscow.com
Subject: Re: 
[Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 17:54:18 
-0800
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com

Obama repealed "Don't Ask, Don't Tell".

Ron Paul stated more than once, during the debates, that he would not 
repeal DADT.

Seeya later, Moscow.

Tom Hansen
Spokane, Washington

"If not us, who?
If not now, when?"

- Unknown

On Jan 1, 2012, at 5:47 PM, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> 
wrote:

  So currently is his position any different than Obama's? Is the 
  only difference that Obama's position is 'evolving,' perhaps with the benefit 
  of polling?

Sunil

  From: deco at moscow.com
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sun, 1 
  Jan 2012 14:25:02 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and 
  Racism

  Kelly,

  Here in a nutshell is Ron Paul's position on gay 
  marriage:

  As a lifelong Christian, he is personally against 
  it.  He is against any federal legislation on this issue, but for 
  allowing each state to decide the issue themselves.

  Needless to say, besides most likely leading to the 
  denial of gays to marry in many states, the legal morasses created by allowing 
  gay marriage in some states and not allowing it or not recognizing it in other 
  states are horrifying to contemplate.

   w.

  From: keely emerinemix 
  Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 10:14 PM
  To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com 

  Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and 
  Racism

  Being a racist doesn't mean he's wrong on these issues, Sunil -- 
  but it means that, as Ron Paul (if he is, in fact, a racist), he should be 
  applauded for those views he holds that are correct and challenged on any that 
  you, I, or anyone else disagrees with.  It doesn't mean he ought to run 
  for office, or that we ought to vote for him.

There are plenty of 
  people, I imagine, who are right about the issues you mention below who aren't 
  bigots, and who -- perhaps more germane to the conversation -- wouldn't gut 
  the social services that make this country not only habitable (imperfect and 
  imperfectly delivered as they are), but moral.  I think you and I see the 
  defense/national security issues fairly similarly, and we likely also applaud 
  Paul's views on legalizing marijuana, gay marriage, and maybe a couple of 
  other issues.  Nonetheless, even those areas on which I agree with Paul 
  -- the ones I just mentioned and the ones you did -- aren't enough for me 
  either to vote for him, or overlook what at least the most fervent Paul 
  supporter would acknowledge was carelessness in letting bigots crank out his 
  newsletter.  

The cumulative effect of Paul's economic and some of 
  his social policies will harm more people -- people already marginalized and 
  suffering -- than the hundreds of thousands this and the previous war-courting 
  administrations have.  Do I take any comfort in that?  

No.  Not at all.  But I have to vote for the man who seems 
  to have more, better answers than the one who has one or two good ones.  
  And I can't afford to combine the worst of both Obama and Paul by risking the 
  horror of, say, a Perry or Bachmann presidency.

Thanks, 
  Sunil.

Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com

  From: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
CC: 
  vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sat, 31 
  Dec 2011 18:12:36 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and 
  Racism

  Let's for one moment assume that Paul is a racist. I'm not saying 
  he is, just assume he is so that issue doesn't need to be discussed for a 
  minute.

Is he wrong on ending our wars? Is he wrong on cutting the 
  defense budget? Is he wrong about the Patriot Act? Is he wrong about the 
  Executive Branch seizing powers it should not have?

What say you, 
  Keely, Wayne, Saundra, Tom?

Sunil

  Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 17:20:01 -0800
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To: deco at moscow.com
CC: Vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: 
  [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism

He has admitted to putting 
  out an investment newsletter that (as far as I can tell) was not one of the 
  newsletters that printed the racist comments.  It had all sorts of 
  conspiracy theories about what will happen to people trying to deal in large 
  amounts of cash, most of which have come true - just not in the way he 
  thought.  Try taking a large pile of cash through airport security and 
  see how well that goes.

Another distraction attempt, supposedly a 
  smoking gun, apparently succeeds in its goals.  Or maybe this is just 
  jumping on the bandwagon, since it is the Daily Mail, after 
  all.

Paul

On 12/31/2011 04:44 PM, Art Deco wrote: 

    See:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078217/Ron-Paul-racist-homophobic-newsletters-Video-taking-credit.html

    Scroll down to see the videos of Paul Himself 
    acknowledging the letters, etc.

    All javascript scripts must be allowed 
    in order to see the whole article including the videos.

    w.

    From: Paul Rumelhart 
    Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 3:52 PM
    To: keely emerinemix 
    Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 
    Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and 
    Racism

Does it matter whether or not the allegations are 
    true?  Or do we just call them out anyway?

Here is an article 
    from CBS News about the newsletters: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57345702-503544/ron-paul-disavows-racist-newsletters-under-his-name/

The 
    article contains a quote by Ron Paul on the issue:  

"When I was 
    out of Congress and practicing medicine full-time, a newsletter was 
    published under my name that I did not edit. Several writers contributed to 
    the product," he said. "For over a decade, I have publicly taken moral 
    responsibility for not paying closer attention to what went out under my 
    name."

I'd hate to see the man dragged over the coals for something 
    he might not have deserved solely because (for example) Jon Huntsman is 
    losing to Ron Paul in New Hampshire and has staked his campaign on a strong 
    showing there.

I got that last bit from this article: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57349712-503544/huntsman-calls-ron-paul-unelectable-because-of-racist-newsletters/

And 
    once again, this is only out there in order to distract us.  These 
    people could care less if it's even true.  It's just 
    convenient.

Paul

On 12/31/2011 02:44 PM, keely emerinemix 
    wrote: 

      I don't think you're defending racism, racist behavior, or 
      even the wrongness of screaming "He's a racist!" at the slightest apparent 
      provocation.  That said, I think it's imperative that legitimate 
      indications that an individual's views on race/gender/class/civil 
      rights/culture are bigoted be called out, examined, and condemned -- and I 
      believe that the text of Ron Paul's newsletters are an example.  

Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com

      Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 
      2011 14:41:13 -0800
From: jborden at datawedge.com
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm; vision2020 at moscow.com

      I’m 
      not *defending* racism, I’m commenting on the mere finger-pointing 
      and accusations being so charged that it’s a nuclear weapon in a political 
      arsenal.  

      It’s 
      used as a tool for distraction, and hence, theatrics.  (And, unless I 
      missed the mark, perhaps Mr. Rumelhart’s point).

      Insert 
      story of “crying wolf”.

      Jay

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