[Vision2020] systemic injustice

Mon Jul 22 18:28:46 PDT 2013

So, basically "fuck him" based on nothing other than your assumption 
that he was being overzealous in trying to do his neighborhood watch 
thing.  I guess he should have just let Martin pull his own gun on him 
and end his sorry existence, right?

Paul

On 07/22/2013 06:03 PM, Sunil Ramalingam wrote:
> Disservice to Zimmerman? He killed a kid because he's a dumbshit cop 
> wannabe, and you're concerned about disservices to that sphincter?
>
> I didn't follow the case closely and I don't know if there was enough 
> evidence to convict. I won't criticize the verdict because I would 
> gladly take it if I were Zimmerman's lawyer.
>
> But I think the cops did a poor job at the beginning and that affected 
> everything that followed. And anyone who pretends race doesn't affect 
> the criminal justice system is full of crap.
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:47:10 -0700
> From: godshatter at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice
> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>
> I agree he should have gone home.  I just don't like the 
> mis-characterization of him as some guy that stalked Martin through 
> the trees and murdered him in cold blood only because he was black.  
> That's a disservice to Zimmerman, and it's only done because he had 
> the gall to be carrying a handgun on his person in a political 
> environment where gun control is all the rage, and because he wasn't 
> charged with second degree murder immediately (through no fault of his 
> own).  Oh, and because everyone wants to think of him as white, and 
> therefore "entitled".
>
> So let me ask you, do you think there was sufficient evidence to 
> convict Zimmerman on second degree murder charges?  Did the jury, in 
> your personal opinion, show systemic racism in their verdict?  Also, 
> do you think "white guy stalks and guns down innocent black teenager" 
> is a fair summary of the events that happened that night?
>
> Paul
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Sent:* Monday, July 22, 2013 4:25 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice
>
> Paul,
>
> Your defense of Zimmerman stopped being outlandish last week; you're 
> well beyond that now.
>
> I don't think you should use 'meme' to describe what others are saying 
> until you comprehend that Zimmerman should have listened to the 
> dispatcher and gone home. This happened because he had a gun; if he 
> didn't he would have gone home.
>
> He had called 911; he was done.
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:42:56 -0700
> From: godshatter at yahoo.com
> To: rhayes at frontier.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice
>
> I respectfully disagree with your conclusion.  I don't think the jury 
> verdict is an example of systemic racism.  That was my original 
> point.  They just didn't have the evidence needed to convict.  From 
> looking at the evidence myself, I support their decision.  Race 
> doesn't enter into it, it's just a conclusion based on the evidence.
>
> I do see two places where systemic racism might have occurred:
>
> 1. When the police decided not to arrest Zimmerman at the very 
> beginning.  I'm assuming the police didn't arrest him because they 
> didn't think they had a case, which was born out by the not guilty 
> verdict.  They probably should have arrested him anyway and let the 
> courts figure that out, though. Maybe they didn't arrest him because 
> he was white/hispanic.  That's certainly possible.  It's also possible 
> that it had more to do with the fact that he knew them.  That would be 
> cronyism, though.
>
> 2. The other place where I see systemic racism is in how the media and 
> the liberal community both are treating this case.  NBC doctored the 
> 911 call at the very beginning to make it look like racial profiling, 
> and everyone seems to have jumped on that bandwagon.  This didn't have 
> to be about race.  The fact that it became about race shows a large 
> element of systemic racism in our media and in many other areas, 
> including in political circles.  I've seen nothing to make me think 
> that Zimmerman targeted Martin because he was black.  Because he was 
> suspicious, sure. Because he was a teenager, maybe. But not because of 
> his race.
>
> I also object, in a nice, non-confrontational way, with your 
> characterization of people posting here about the "rightness of the 
> death of a boy at the hands of a vigilante".  I have never said that 
> Trayvon Martin should have died, nor have I expressed an opinion about 
> whether or not I would think that a good thing.  I haven't seen anyone 
> else do so, either.  I've just been trying to express why I think the 
> jury's verdict made sense, and to counter the "white guy stalks and 
> guns down an innocent black teenager" meme that, based on the 
> evidence, seems to be made out of whole cloth.
>
> I do think that Martin should not have attacked Zimmerman, if that is 
> indeed what happened.  The evidence I've seen points that way.  I 
> think it's tragic that he died, especially since this whole 
> confrontation could have easily been avoided by both Martin and Zimmerman.
>
> Paul
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* "rhayes at frontier.com" <rhayes at frontier.com>
> *To:* "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, July 22, 2013 10:43 AM
> *Subject:* [Vision2020] systemic injustice
>
> To those who insist on posting the rightness of the death of a boy at 
> the hands of a vigilante, I post a soft spoken message. And I would 
> remind you that your words may be hurtful...
> I live in a bubble far removed from the rest of the country and my 
> past. When, as a young man, I moved to Moscow from just north of the 
> Mason-Dixon line, I was relieved to be free from all the issues of 
> race. Yea, I'm white. Privileged by my birth. As a kid, race and 
> ethnicity were overwhelming to me. Italians hated the Irish, Poles 
> were disliked and distrusted by almost everyone. The blacks didn't 
> like whites in general. Whites distrusted blacks. Everyone had names 
> for everyone else's ethnicity. Whops, spics, hunkies, kikes, 
> hillbillies... the list of derogatory names goes on and on.
> I was despised because of being sometimes Irish, sometimes a sort of 
> Polack. I learned to run and run fast to keep from being beaten up by 
> what ever group that happened to cross my path. However, I didn't 
> see/understand systemic racism until our Boy Scout troop tried to go 
> swimming in the CITY pool. They stopped us because we were 
> an integrated troop. Being young I never stopped to think why 
> there never were black kids in the pool...EVER. The man that stopped 
> us was a "greasy" (another derogatory slur)Greek with kinky hair and a 
> pretty dark complexion. He stopped Jerome with his arm saying, "Not 
> You!" Our scout master must have known what he was up to, and to this 
> day I hold him in high esteem as a brave and principled man.  And when 
> that Greek guy stopped him from entering the locker, I looked at 
> Jerome, and maybe for the first time saw him as a black kid with whom 
> I had camped, sang, cooked dinners, and saw what his life entailed. It 
> was much more than name calling, being hated, distrusted. It was a 
> system of hatred.
> Back to the bubble thing...
> So I moved here and left ethnicity and race issues behind. Well, not 
> really. It isn't so much an issue here because the majority, the vast 
> majority of people are white, like me. It is inevitable that this will 
> change. It is already changing and changing rapidly. How will this 
> area deal with race and ethnicity? There are hate groups and hateful 
> people conveniently located nearby. We need to be vigilant with our 
> communities, and with ourselves. It is convenient to be blind to the 
> hatred surrounding us.
> I suppose one good thing that the so called "jury" in Florida proved 
> is that SYSTEMIC racism still exists. I sometimes forget that. I live 
> in a bubble. Now I am reminded, but should a young man's life be 
> sacrificed so that I would again see? People who deny that injustice 
> exists live in a state of blind shame.
>
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