[Vision2020] Bill Moore - First Step Internet

Moscow Cares moscowcares at moscow.com
Wed Nov 30 17:17:59 PST 2011 

Another thing, since you are so into social ethics, ML . . .

In civil society people ask for permission to address someone by their first name.  I do not recall you asking me.

Don't bother asking.  I seriously doubt I would permit it.

Seeya round town, Moscow.

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho

"If not us, who?
If not now, when?"

- Unknown

On Nov 30, 2011, at 5:11 PM, "ML394" <ml394 at hushmail.com> wrote:

> There's a big difference here, Tom.
> 
> Your website documented the activities of a group.  Your opinions were expressed and represented by the content on your website.  
> 
> I am talking about pure slander, not researched, documented proof which proves one thing or another.
> 
> Slander like this: "PERSONX is a rapist, and was a rapist in several towns before they came to Moscow."
> 
> Very different, Tom, I assure you.  I am not recommending a curb to free speech here.  I am recommending a new way of presenting this forum to viewers on the internet.  First Step Internet consciously promotes all V2020 posts on search engines.  It violates the very new field of internet law.  Bill Moore knows it and so does the owner of that company.  They are not just on "thin ice."  They are putting their business at risk of being sued for more money than they have to keep it open.
> 
> I assure you.
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
> Several other attempts have been made to shut down . . .
> 
> "Not on the Palouse"
> http://www.NotonthePalouse.com
> 
> Hard copies of webpages within "Not on the Palouse" have been submitted in court to Judge Stegner, in attempt to shut "Not on the Palouse" down.
> 
> Yet it remains.
> 
> Even this shall come to pass
> 
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
> 
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
> 
> "If not us, who?
> If not now, when?"
> 
> - Unknown
> 
> On Nov 30, 2011, at 4:53 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > I am not going to bother looking it up. You may well be right legally. Regardless, proving actual harm done would be difficult. I stand by my comment:
> > "There are untold public bulletin boards, etc. where nasty comments are made on a daily basis. If there was money to be made sueing them, I'm sure lawyers would be doing so. Capitalism is highly efficient in that regard!"
> > 
> > Again, I applaud your courageous anonymous stand.
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:13 PM, ML394 <ml394 at hushmail.com> wrote:
> > Darrell:
> > 
> > This is a very good, thoughtful response, but it is not accurate: Most online bulletin boards, Google groups and online forums do not promote posts which slander real people. 
> > 
> > Here's the distinction: If someone on this forum says, "ML394 is a criminal," then that's not slander. But if someone says, "BILL MOORE is a thief," that is actually slander. And the hosting company which promotes that slander become liable in a court of law for the content of its posts.
> > 
> > If a hosting company makes its forum posts private, however, then it is not legally responsible for slanderous content.
> > 
> > Again, look it up.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've been familiar with 21st century privacy (or, more specifically the
> > lack thereof) for some time, ML394. My snarky response was because I find
> > it quite ridiculous that anyone would be upset that remarks made on a
> > public board might be read by-gasp!-the public.
> > 
> > UI see no need for 1st Step to change how V2020 works. Anyone making a
> > judgement solely off what is written here would be extremely foolish.
> > 
> > I don't think 1st Step has anything to fear RE slander. There are untold
> > public bulletin boards, etc. where nasty comments are made on a daily
> > basis. If there was money to be made sueing them, I'm sure lawyers would
> > be doing so. Capitalism is highly efficient in that regard!
> > 
> > Anyone who wants to look up what I have written on a public forum is free
> > to do so. That is why I attach my name to my musings.
> > 
> > Glad to see you remember my name from the Chamber. Your memory is
> > excellent, as I left them some time ago. In fact they are looking for
> > another director, again, even as you read this.
> > 
> > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:48 PM, ML394 <ml394 at hushmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Darrell:
> > >
> > > I'm glad that you're getting educated about 21st century privacy. And I
> > > meant it when I said that I heard First Step Internet is going out of
> > > business. A lawsuit for slander could put any small company like First
> > > Step Internet out of business.
> > >
> > > Also, I didn't know that the Moscow Chamber of Commerce hires snarky staff
> > > members like yourself. But that's good for business, right? But when the
> > > Moscow chamber is promoting our town, a quick search through the 2020 posts
> > > can find out what you have to say, how sarcastic you are to others. "When
> > > did 7th graders take over the chamber of commerce?" will be the big
> > > question businesses ask when they decide on taking their business elsewhere.
> > >
> > > Good job, darrell.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Darrell Keim <
> > > keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Ya mean to say that people can read the things I writ and are written 'bout
> > > me on a public board!?!
> > >
> > > Well, shucks. I am mighty glad you took this courageous anonymous stand,
> > > ML394!
> > >
> > > *Shame* on First Step for providing us with a valuable free service, and
> > > not doing it how y'all think is *proper.*
> > >
> > >
> > > It is good of you to eddycate us po' innocent rubes about the danger of
> > > postings on the internut.
> > >
> > > And you were so clever by starting with your own fake post about First Step
> > > to make your point!
> > >
> > > I sure hope your occupation turns out as well as the others!
> > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:11 PM, ML394 <ml394 at hushmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > My name is John Q. Public. My name is the name of anyone who gets talked
> > > > about on this forum and has their reputation smeared on the search
> > > > engines. My name is your name, Tom. My name is OCCUPY VISION 2020, taking
> > > > a stand against First Step Internet for promoting slanderous comments on
> > > > the internet and taking no responsibility for the harm that does to real
> > > > people.
> > > >
> > > > The truth is that corporations like First Step Internet need to be held
> > > > accountable for their actions and the use of its online technology to
> > > allow
> > > > anonymous smears of real people.
> > > >
> > > > The Vision 2020 policy of having all posts tracked by search engines
> > > needs
> > > > to be changed. First Step Internet can make sure that no search engines
> > > > track the forum posts. Why do people on the internet need to have access
> > > > to the local posts on the forum? That's not freedom, it is slander with
> > > > technology.
> > > >
> > > > Change the policy. Freedom of speech within the forum is fine, but having
> > > > the freedom to slander others across the internet should not be allowed
> > > by
> > > > First Step Internet. All First Step has to do is simply make the forum's
> > > > posts untrackable by search engines. Nothing else on the forum would
> > > > change.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Tom Hansen <
> > > thansen at moscow.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > And your name is . . . ?
> > > >
> > > > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> > > >
> > > > Tom Hansen
> > > > Moscow, Idaho
> > > >
> > > > "If not us, who?
> > > > If not now, when?"
> > > >
> > > > - Unknown
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 30, 2011, at 2:16 PM, "ML394" <ml394 at hushmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > What I heard about First Step Internet is this:
> > > > >
> > > > > Due to the way the forum posts are being tracked by Google these days,
> > > > anyone can come on this forum and claim to be a person who they are not.
> > > > Anyone can say anything about someone else (even slander them) and those
> > > > posts will be tracked by Google and connected to the name of the
> > > slandered
> > > > person.
> > > > >
> > > > > In fact, most of the email addresses used to post to this forum could
> > > > never be tracked or traced to the name on the forum post. There is no
> > > easy
> > > > way to prove that any of the forum members are who they claim to be.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, if someone were to claim on this forum to be BILL MOORE, who loves
> > > > to steal money, commit crimes and wants others to share in his life of
> > > > self-debasement, there would be no way to prove that BILL MOORE did not
> > > > author the post. And yet the slander remains online. And we all know that
> > > > Bill Moore of First Step Internet is hardly a degenerate. He is one of
> > > the
> > > > most upstanding people in the area, a man who stands for freedom of
> > > speech
> > > > and the freedom to slander people, too.
> > > > >
> > > > > First Step Internet assumes no liability for the posts on this forum,
> > > > but according to the Electronic Frontier Foundation hosting a forum which
> > > > enables members to slander people by name and not just by their screen
> > > name
> > > > creates a legal liability for the hosting company. In this case, First
> > > Step
> > > > Internet is legally responsible for actually promoting the Vision 2020
> > > > forum on Google and other search engines. First Step Internet is legally
> > > > responsible for the slander its members write about others.
> > > > >
> > > > > The way I look at it, the longer First Step Internet lets Google track
> > > > the slanderous comments that have been made on the forum the greater the
> > > > liability. And First Step Internet would be out of business quickly.
> > > > >
> > > > > While I appreciate how important First Step Internet has been in the
> > > > development of government-funded, rural internet access and the
> > > development
> > > > of Vision 2020, I am certain that First Step Internet would be better off
> > > > (from a legal standpoint) making Vision 2020 a private forum that
> > > promotes
> > > > free speech but does not allow search engines to track the content of its
> > > > posts.
> > > > > =======================================================
> > > > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > > > =======================================================
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > =======================================================
> > > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > > =======================================================
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>               http://www.fsr.net
>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
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