[Vision2020] Bill Moore - First Step Internet

[ML394]

There's a big difference here, Tom.

Your website documented the activities of a group.  Your opinions were
expressed and represented by the content on your website.  

I am talking about pure slander, not researched, documented proof
which proves one thing or another.

Slander like this: "PERSONX is a rapist, and was a rapist in several
towns before they came to Moscow."

Very different, Tom, I assure you.  I am not recommending a curb to
free speech here.  I am recommending a new way of presenting this
forum to viewers on the internet.  First Step Internet consciously
promotes all V2020 posts on search engines.  It violates the very new
field of internet law.  Bill Moore knows it and so does the owner of
that company.  They are not just on "thin ice."  They are putting
their business at risk of being sued for more money than they have to
keep it open.

I assure you.
On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Tom Hansen  wrote:Several
other attempts have been made to shut down . . .

"Not on the Palouse"
http://www.NotonthePalouse.com

Hard copies of webpages within "Not on the Palouse" have been
submitted in court to Judge Stegner, in attempt to shut "Not on the
Palouse" down.

Yet it remains.

Even this shall come to pass

Seeya round town, Moscow.

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho

"If not us, who?
If not now, when?"

- Unknown

On Nov 30, 2011, at 4:53 PM, Darrell Keim  wrote:

> I am not going to bother looking it up.  You may well be right
legally.  Regardless, proving actual harm done would be difficult.  I
stand by my comment:
>  "There are untold public bulletin boards, etc. where nasty comments
are made on a daily basis.  If there was money to be made sueing them,
I'm sure lawyers would be doing so.  Capitalism is highly efficient in
that regard!"
>  
> Again, I applaud your courageous anonymous stand.
>  
> 
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:13 PM, ML394  wrote:
> Darrell:
> 
> This is a very good, thoughtful response, but it is not accurate:
Most online bulletin boards, Google groups and online forums do not
promote posts which slander real people.  
> 
> Here's the distinction: If someone on this forum says, "ML394 is a
criminal," then that's not slander.  But if someone says, "BILL MOORE
is a thief," that is actually slander.  And the hosting company which
promotes that slander become liable in a court of law for the content
of its posts.
> 
> If a hosting company makes its forum posts private, however, then it
is not legally responsible for slanderous content.
> 
> Again, look it up.
> 
> 
>  
> 
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Darrell Keim  wrote:
> I've been familiar with 21st century privacy (or, more specifically
the
> lack thereof) for some time, ML394. My snarky response was because I
find
> it quite ridiculous that anyone would be upset that remarks made on
a
> public board might be read by-gasp!-the public.
> 
> UI see no need for 1st Step to change how V2020 works. Anyone making
a
> judgement solely off what is written here would be extremely
foolish.
> 
> I don't think 1st Step has anything to fear RE slander. There are
untold
> public bulletin boards, etc. where nasty comments are made on a
daily
> basis. If there was money to be made sueing them, I'm sure lawyers
would
> be doing so. Capitalism is highly efficient in that regard!
> 
> Anyone who wants to look up what I have written on a public forum is
free
> to do so. That is why I attach my name to my musings.
> 
> Glad to see you remember my name from the Chamber. Your memory is
> excellent, as I left them some time ago. In fact they are looking
for
> another director, again, even as you read this.
> 
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:48 PM, ML394  wrote:
> 
> > Darrell:
> >
> > I'm glad that you're getting educated about 21st century privacy.
And I
> > meant it when I said that I heard First Step Internet is going out
of
> > business. A lawsuit for slander could put any small company like
First
> > Step Internet out of business.
> >
> > Also, I didn't know that the Moscow Chamber of Commerce hires
snarky staff
> > members like yourself. But that's good for business, right? But
when the
> > Moscow chamber is promoting our town, a quick search through the
2020 posts
> > can find out what you have to say, how sarcastic you are to
others. "When
> > did 7th graders take over the chamber of commerce?" will be the
big
> > question businesses ask when they decide on taking their business
elsewhere.
> >
> > Good job, darrell.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Darrell Keim <
> > keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Ya mean to say that people can read the things I writ and are
written 'bout
> > me on a public board!?!
> >
> > Well, shucks. I am mighty glad you took this courageous anonymous
stand,
> > ML394!
> >
> > *Shame* on First Step for providing us with a valuable free
service, and
> > not doing it how y'all think is *proper.*
> >
> >
> > It is good of you to eddycate us po' innocent rubes about the
danger of
> > postings on the internut.
> >
> > And you were so clever by starting with your own fake post about
First Step
> > to make your point!
> >
> > I sure hope your occupation turns out as well as the others!
> > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:11 PM, ML394  wrote:
> >
> > > My name is John Q. Public. My name is the name of anyone who
gets talked
> > > about on this forum and has their reputation smeared on the
search
> > > engines. My name is your name, Tom. My name is OCCUPY VISION
2020, taking
> > > a stand against First Step Internet for promoting slanderous
comments on
> > > the internet and taking no responsibility for the harm that does
to real
> > > people.
> > >
> > > The truth is that corporations like First Step Internet need to
be held
> > > accountable for their actions and the use of its online
technology to
> > allow
> > > anonymous smears of real people.
> > >
> > > The Vision 2020 policy of having all posts tracked by search
engines
> > needs
> > > to be changed. First Step Internet can make sure that no search
engines
> > > track the forum posts. Why do people on the internet need to
have access
> > > to the local posts on the forum? That's not freedom, it is
slander with
> > > technology.
> > >
> > > Change the policy. Freedom of speech within the forum is fine,
but having
> > > the freedom to slander others across the internet should not be
allowed
> > by
> > > First Step Internet. All First Step has to do is simply make the
forum's
> > > posts untrackable by search engines. Nothing else on the forum
would
> > > change.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Tom Hansen <
> > thansen at moscow.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > And your name is . . . ?
> > >
> > > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> > >
> > > Tom Hansen
> > > Moscow, Idaho
> > >
> > > "If not us, who?
> > > If not now, when?"
> > >
> > > - Unknown
> > >
> > > On Nov 30, 2011, at 2:16 PM, "ML394"  wrote:
> > >
> > > > What I heard about First Step Internet is this:
> > > >
> > > > Due to the way the forum posts are being tracked by Google
these days,
> > > anyone can come on this forum and claim to be a person who they
are not.
> > > Anyone can say anything about someone else (even slander them)
and those
> > > posts will be tracked by Google and connected to the name of the
> > slandered
> > > person.
> > > >
> > > > In fact, most of the email addresses used to post to this
forum could
> > > never be tracked or traced to the name on the forum post. There
is no
> > easy
> > > way to prove that any of the forum members are who they claim to
be.
> > > >
> > > > So, if someone were to claim on this forum to be BILL MOORE,
who loves
> > > to steal money, commit crimes and wants others to share in his
life of
> > > self-debasement, there would be no way to prove that BILL MOORE
did not
> > > author the post. And yet the slander remains online. And we all
know that
> > > Bill Moore of First Step Internet is hardly a degenerate. He is
one of
> > the
> > > most upstanding people in the area, a man who stands for freedom
of
> > speech
> > > and the freedom to slander people, too.
> > > >
> > > > First Step Internet assumes no liability for the posts on this
forum,
> > > but according to the Electronic Frontier Foundation hosting a
forum which
> > > enables members to slander people by name and not just by their
screen
> > name
> > > creates a legal liability for the hosting company. In this case,
First
> > Step
> > > Internet is legally responsible for actually promoting the
Vision 2020
> > > forum on Google and other search engines. First Step Internet is
legally
> > > responsible for the slander its members write about others.
> > > >
> > > > The way I look at it, the longer First Step Internet lets
Google track
> > > the slanderous comments that have been made on the forum the
greater the
> > > liability. And First Step Internet would be out of business
quickly.
> > > >
> > > > While I appreciate how important First Step Internet has been
in the
> > > development of government-funded, rural internet access and the
> > development
> > > of Vision 2020, I am certain that First Step Internet would be
better off
> > > (from a legal standpoint) making Vision 2020 a private forum
that
> > promotes
> > > free speech but does not allow search engines to track the
content of its
> > > posts.
> > > > =======================================================
> > > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > > =======================================================
> > >
> > >
> > > =======================================================
> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > =======================================================
> > >
> >
> >
> 
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>               http://www.fsr.net
>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
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