[Vision2020] Health Insurance is NOT Health Care

Sat Sep 26 00:21:40 PDT 2009

Mr. Schou,

I never claimed there was such a thing as a free lunch. Hospitals are reimbursed for emergency care at taxpayer expense for indigent care. They get donations from charity organizations to cover costs. Hospitals also charge the uninsured more than the insured for the exact same care, making it much more difficult for the poor to pay off debt incurred from accidents and medical costs thereby reducing the number of people that can be helped though charities.

A person who receives care at $1000, will get charged $2000 for not having insurance. Then the bill is sent to collections if they cannot pay it off in time, like a few months, then the collection agencies charge about twice to three times that amount to $6000 at 7.0% interest. Obviously, a person that cannot afford insurance cannot also afford the $6000 bill or make any payments that bite into the principle. 

My opinion is just have public hospitals supported by the taxpayers and pay doctors, nurses, and care staff a salary. Charge people based on income and necessity of the care. 

 Donovan Arnold 

--- On Sat, 9/26/09, Andreas Schou <ophite at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Andreas Schou <ophite at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Health Insurance is NOT Health Care
To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com>
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com, "NicholasGier" <NGIER at uidaho.edu>
Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 4:49 AM

Donovan --

I might add that people who receive emergency-room care do not receive "free" health care. They receive health care that bears a significantly higher probability of being written off as bad debt at the end of a fiscal year; a write-off that non-profit hospitals _must_ perform or risk losing their nonprofit status.

-- ACS

On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 8:37 PM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com> wrote:

Wayne,

I never said that ANYONE should be denied needed medical care. I said that we, the US Taxpayers, cannot afford it.

You disagree with this? 

Donovan Arnold

--- On Fri, 9/25/09, Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com> wrote:

From: Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com> 

Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Health Insurance is NOT Health Care
To: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com, "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com>, "NicholasGier" <NGIER at uidaho.edu>
Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 7:22 PM 

Donovan, 

And just what is wrong with:"Next, it would provide free medical care to anyone that could crawl, climb, walk, roll or drive, legally or illegally, into the United States "?   IF someone needs medical care do you think they should just be left on the curb to die?

Lets not mix up failed border security issues with health care. IF someone needs medical care, they need medical care and it shouldn't matter HOW they got here, legal or illegal.

Wayne

On Sep 25, 2009, at 12:02 PM, Andreas Schou wrote:

First, if I lose my job after 4 months of work in the year, I will go broke... Obama will force me to buy insurance, which consequentially will be about $300 a month if I lose my job (those offered COBRA, know what I mean first hand). His promise to help the poor, (those making less than $930 a month) won’t apply to me because after 4 months of work, I will be over $10,500 income mark to receive government assistance with insurance costs.  Who can afford $300 a month on $10,500 a year? Obama thinks everyone can. 

Donovan --

You are wrong. The subsidy in the Baucus bill, which is by far the most conservative, is set at 300% of the poverty threshold, or around $33,000 for an individual. The more reasonable subsidy level set in the House is around $44,000, or 400% of the poverty threshold. 

Second, one way to pay for part of this horrible plan, Obama is going to be making cuts to Medicare. This is horrible

You are wrong. The bill tinkers with Medicare reimbursement rates (more for primary care, less for specialist care), rolls back reimbursement for Medicare Advantage to the Medicare reimbursement rate, and establishes comparative effectiveness research boards. Though I doubt the "waste, fraud, and abuse" savings will be as high as they say it is, there are no Medicare "cuts.."

Yes, you tell me, but what about Medicare Advantage? Medicare Advantage is a program that reimburses private insurers for medical care. It reimburses at 114% the rate that Medicare does. There is absolutely no reason for this to be the case. 

Next, it would provide free medical care to anyone that could crawl, climb, walk, roll or drive, legally or illegally, into the United States. 

You are wrong. Illegal immigrants are ineligible to receive the subsidy. Insofar as they might be able to obtain health insurance through a health insurance exchange, they join the risk pool without subsidy, reducing insurance rates for everyone else. This is comparable to the way things work today; illegal immigrants will be no more able (but also no less able) to pay for health care health insurance than they are today.

Another aspect of this bill will be an increase in your insurance premiums. If everyone regardless of illness, injury, or ailment, is allowed into your insurance co-op, then there will be more medical costs, and more costs handed to you. The only way insurance companies could absorb those costs would be to raise your premiums and deductibles.

You are wrong. The majority of the savings come from diluting the insurance pool in two ways. First, the individual mandate (which requires people to buy health insurance) adds healthy people to the health insurance pool. Second, the insurance exchanges broaden the risk pools across several insurers.. Third, a public option or co-op option would cram down insurance companies' profit margins by forcing them to compete with a nonprofit option.

Literally no point you made has any foundation, as per normal.
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