[Vision2020] Health Insurance is NOT Health Care

[Andreas Schou]

Donovan --

I might add that people who receive emergency-room care do not receive
"free" health care. They receive health care that bears a significantly
higher probability of being written off as bad debt at the end of a fiscal
year; a write-off that non-profit hospitals _must_ perform or risk losing
their nonprofit status.

-- ACS

On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 8:37 PM, Donovan Arnold <
donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Wayne,
>
> I never said that ANYONE should be denied needed medical care. I said that
> we, the US Taxpayers, cannot afford it.
>
> You disagree with this?
>
> Donovan Arnold
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 9/25/09, Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Health Insurance is NOT Health Care
> To: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com, "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com>,
> "NicholasGier" <NGIER at uidaho.edu>
> Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 7:22 PM
>
>
> Donovan,
>
> And just what is wrong with:"Next, it would provide free medical care to
> anyone that could crawl, climb, walk, roll or drive, legally or illegally,
> into the United States "?   IF someone needs medical care do you think
> they should just be left on the curb to die?
>
> Lets not mix up failed border security issues with health care. IF someone
> needs medical care, they need medical care and it shouldn't matter HOW they
> got here, legal or illegal.
>
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  On Sep 25, 2009, at 12:02 PM, Andreas Schou wrote:
>
>
>>
>>   First, if I lose my job after 4 months of work in the year, I will go
>> broke.. Obama will force me to buy insurance, which consequentially will be
>> about $300 a month if I lose my job (those offered COBRA, know what I mean
>> first hand). His promise to help the poor, (those making less than $930 a
>> month) won’t apply to me because after 4 months of work, I will be over
>> $10,500 income mark to receive government assistance with insurance costs.
>> Who can afford $300 a month on $10,500 a year? Obama thinks everyone can.
>>
>
> Donovan --
>
> You are wrong. The subsidy in the Baucus bill, which is by far the most
> conservative, is set at 300% of the poverty threshold, or around $33,000 for
> an individual. The more reasonable subsidy level set in the House is around
> $44,000, or 400% of the poverty threshold.
>
>
>> Second, one way to pay for part of this horrible plan, Obama is going to
>> be making cuts to Medicare. This is horrible
>>
>
> You are wrong. The bill tinkers with Medicare reimbursement rates (more for
> primary care, less for specialist care), rolls back reimbursement for
> Medicare Advantage to the Medicare reimbursement rate, and establishes
> comparative effectiveness research boards. Though I doubt the "waste, fraud,
> and abuse" savings will be as high as they say it is, there are no Medicare
> "cuts."
>
> Yes, you tell me, but what about Medicare Advantage? Medicare Advantage is
> a program that reimburses private insurers for medical care. It reimburses
> at 114% the rate that Medicare does. There is absolutely no reason for this
> to be the case.
>
>
>
> Next, it would provide free medical care to anyone that could crawl, climb,
> walk, roll or drive, legally or illegally, into the United States.
>
>
> You are wrong. Illegal immigrants are ineligible to receive the subsidy.
> Insofar as they might be able to obtain health insurance through a health
> insurance exchange, they join the risk pool without subsidy, reducing
> insurance rates for everyone else. This is comparable to the way things work
> today; illegal immigrants will be no more able (but also no less able) to
> pay for health care health insurance than they are today.
>
>
>>
>> Another aspect of this bill will be an increase in your insurance
>> premiums. If *everyone *regardless of illness, injury, or ailment, is
>> allowed into your insurance co-op, then there will be more medical costs,
>> and more costs handed to you. The only way insurance companies could absorb
>> those costs would be to raise your premiums and deductibles.
>>
>
> You are wrong. The majority of the savings come from diluting the insurance
> pool in two ways. First, the individual mandate (which requires people to
> buy health insurance) adds healthy people to the health insurance pool.
> Second, the insurance exchanges broaden the risk pools across several
> insurers. Third, a public option or co-op option would cram down insurance
> companies' profit margins by forcing them to compete with a nonprofit
> option.
>
> Literally no point you made has any foundation, as per normal.
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>               http://www.fsr.net
>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com<http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com>
> =======================================================
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com<http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com>
> =======================================================
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20090925/1b5d70f2/attachment.html