[Vision2020] Air Force Boots Top Aviator
bear at moscow.com
bear at moscow.com
Thu May 21 17:42:40 PDT 2009
Folks,
You're missing the point! 1.5 or 15 percent, DOESN'T MATTER, the issue is
gay's in the military, not percentages or who came up with them - THAT
doesn't matter! For arguments sake lets split the difference and call it
somewhere between 1.5 and 10%.
THE ISSUE is gays serving their country, NOT the statistics or how they
were gathered or by whom!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> On this issue, I'm going to side with Gary on the numbers. Kinsey had some
> serious methodological issues, and as his fame (or, at the time, I guess
> you'd have called it notoriety) grew, the number of respondents that
> intentionally sought him out because they had a particular sociological
> axe
> to grind also grew. Exclusively gay and lesbian Americans are a relatively
> small minority; a small minority that should not be denied any particular
> rights any more than Laotian immigrants should be denied any particular
> rights.
>
> -- ACS
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 5:13 PM, g. crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Funny. Your ursine pal quotes from the same study I cited (The Social
>> Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices in the United States -
>> Laumann,
>> Gagnon, Michael, Michaels) as well as the hugely discredited Kinsey
>> report
>> in a failed attempt to bear up his spurious assertion of 10% of
>> America's
>> population being gay and yet you find my numbers...curious. Could it be
>> that
>> Yogi's numbers "look better" because they more closely match up with
>> your
>> preconceived notions?
>>
>> g
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Campbell" <
>> philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
>> To: <bear at moscow.com>
>> Cc: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>; <bear at moscow.com>; "Tom
>> Hansen"
>> <thansen at moscow.com>; "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:02 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Air Force Boots Top Aviator
>>
>> > This looks better.
>> >
>> > The Crabtree information, including the citation, is in quotes,
>> > indicating it was lifted from a website or whatever. I wonder where it
>> > came from.
>> >
>> > You're right, though, Bear the percentage is irrelevant.
>> > Discrimination is wrong regardless of the percentage. But the Crabtree
>> > numbers are ... curious.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Joe Campbell
>> >
>> > On May 21, 2009, at 7:33 AM, bear at moscow.com wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I think we are trying to count how many angels can dance on the head
>> >> of a
>> >> pin, and depending on what study you use, the numbers vary.
>> >>
>> >> The bottom line is, they have a right to serve, let them!
>> >>
>> >> The average ratio from several studies are that 9.37% of men are
>> >> homosexual and 4.87% of women are homosexual in the US. The Central
>> >> Intelligence Agency estimates that there are 149,346,264 men and
>> >> 154,478,382 women in the US which would statistically equate to
>> >> 13,993,745
>> >> gay men & 7,523,097 lesbians in the US for a total of just over 21.5
>> >> Million.
>> >>
>> >> In 1995, a survey (The prevalence of homosexual behavior and
>> >> attraction in
>> >> the United States, the United Kingdom and France: Results of national
>> >> population-based samples - Sell, Wells, and Wypij) reported 6.2% of
>> >> males
>> >> and 3.6% of females in the United States report having had sexual
>> >> contact
>> >> with someone of the same sex in the previous 5 years.
>> >>
>> >> A 1994 study (The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices
>> >> in
>> >> the United States - Laumann, Gagnon, Michael, Michaels) reported
>> >> that the
>> >> incidence rate of homosexual desire for men is 7.7% and 7.5% for
>> >> women.
>> >>
>> >> A 1993 study (The Janus Report on Sexual Behavior - Janus and Janus)
>> >> found
>> >> 9% of men and 5% of women were involved in frequent or ongoing
>> >> homosexual
>> >> experiences.
>> >>
>> >> A 1990 study (Homosexuality/Heterosexuality by McWhirter, Sanders,
>> and
>> >> Reinisch) stated 13.95% of males and 4.25% of females had
>> >> "extensive" or
>> >> "more than incidental" homosexual experience.
>> >>
>> >> The Indiana University Kinsey Reports (Sexual Behavior in the Human
>> >> Male -
>> >> Kinsey, Pomeroy, and Martin/Sexual Behavior in the Human Female -
>> >> Kinsey,
>> >> Pomeroy, Martin, and Gerhard) reported 10% of males being more or
>> less
>> >> exclusively homosexual and 2% to 6% of females being more or less
>> >> exclusively homosexual.
>> >>
>> >> ---
>> >> ---
>> >> ---
>> >> ---
>> >> ---
>> >> ---
>> >> ---
>> >> ---
>> >> ---
>> >> ---
>> >> ---
>> >> ---
>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >>> Where is this from?
>> >>>
>> >>> Joe Campbell
>> >>>
>> >>> On May 21, 2009, at 6:14 AM, "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> "1.51% of the total U.S. population identifies themselves as gay,
>> >>>> lesbian or bisexual, or 4.3 total million Americans. These numbers
>> >>>> are based on figures provided by a broad-based coalition of gay
>> >>>> rights organizations and homosexual advocacy groups. The primary
>> >>>> source cited was the The National Health and Social Life Survey
>> >>>> (NHSLS), published in the book The Social Organization of Sex:
>> >>>> Sexual Practices in the United States (1994), by Laumann, Gagnon,
>> >>>> Michael and Michaels. "
>> >>>>
>> >>>> And,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "Referring to the Laumann study, the gay rights coalition stated
>> >>>> that in the United States 2.8% of males age 18 or older, and 1.4%
>> of
>> >>>> females age 18 or older are homosexual, gay, lesbian or bisexual.
>> We
>> >>>> have applied their figures to the 2003 U.S. population (284,800,000
>> >>>> total population, according to the U.S. Census Bureau). 0.9% of
>> >>>> women identify themselves as lesbians (excluding bisexuals), which
>> >>>> equates to 0.32% of total U.S. population being lesbians. 2 percent
>> >>>> of men identify themselves as gay (excluding bisexuals), which
>> >>>> equates to 0.7% of total U.S. population being gay men. Source:
>> >>>> National study published in Laumann, et al., The Social
>> Organization
>> >>>> of Sex: Sexual Practices in the United States (1994)"
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> g
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>> From: <bear at moscow.com>
>> >>>> To: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>> >>>> Cc: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:21 PM
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Air Force Boots Top Aviator
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Tom,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Honestly the only way that we can put a number on it is based on
>> >>>> the fact
>> >>>>> that a nations military forces reflects the statistics of that
>> >>>> nation. It
>> >>>>> is estimated that about 10% of the US population is gay,
>> >>>> therefore, it
>> >>>>> safe to make the assumption that some where around 6,000 of those
>> >>>> on the
>> >>>>> Wall were gay (5, 819.5 for those of you out there doing the
>> math).
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Even more interesting when you look at those numbers based on WW2
>> >>>> troop
>> >>>>> numbers, and really more revealing when you consider that there
>> >>>> have been
>> >>>>> 3,465 Medal of Honor winners, resulting in 346 gay Medal of Honor
>> >>>> winners.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I had an old First Sergeant that used to tell our troops, that one
>> >>>> in
>> >>>>> three people in America has some sort of psychological problem. So
>> >>>> in this
>> >>>>> formation, look to your left, and look to your right, and if those
>> >>>> two
>> >>>>> guys look OK, it's YOU!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> I have asked this question before, and it bears repeating again
>> >>>> coupled
>> >>>>>> with serious concern.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> There are 58,195 names on the Vietnam Memorial Wall.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> How many, would you estimate, belong to gay soldiers, sailors,
>> >>>> airmen, and
>> >>>>>> marines?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Pro patria,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Tom Hansen
>> >>>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "Patriotism is not a short and frenzied outburst of emotion but
>> >>>>>> the
>> >>>>>> tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime."
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -- Adlai E. Stevenson, Jr.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> =======================================================
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>> >>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>> >>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >>>>>> =======================================================
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> =======================================================
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>> >>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>> >>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >>>>> =======================================================
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> =======================================================
>> >>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >>>> http://www.fsr.net
>> >>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >>>> =======================================================
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> =======================================================
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>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>>
>
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