[Vision2020] women in authority and leadership

Sue Hovey suehovey at moscow.com
Sat Jul 21 00:36:55 PDT 2007 

Well there has certainly been little disagreement among men that women are 
supposed to serve....

Sue
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
To: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>; <suehovey at moscow.com>; 
<thansen at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership


>I agree with Matt, however there are plenty of things women can do to serve 
>besides combat.
>
> Roger
> -----Original message-----
> From: "Matt Decker" mattd2107 at hotmail.com
> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:52:24 -0700
> To: suehovey at moscow.com,  thansen at moscow.com,  vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
>
>> Sue,
>>
>> It's nice to see someone besides us military boys talking about this. I
>> understand your concerns, which I'm sure do happen time to time. I doubt
>> though, that in the case of rape, it happens very often. Of course in
>> situations such as those women shouldn't be discharged. One must( I can't
>> state enough) realize that every time someone, women or men, leaves their
>> unit for whatever that be, drastically hurts the unit.
>>
>> Having a possibility for a women to be raped and having one if not two
>> people withdrawn from that unit only further makes me more confident 
>> about
>> my opinion.What if one of those women are in a leadership role.Believe me
>> I've seen a women lietantant (spelling again) flown home from ship from 
>> an
>> unwanted pregnancy. War is not about political correctness, but rather
>> lives. Women in the infantry will cause more causalities in my sexiest(
>> thanks Tom) opinion. So be it though. I've seen first hand what the 
>> infantry
>> is about.
>>
>> Ive trained with Force Recon and the Navy seals. I've fast roped out of
>> helicopters with 80 pounds of gear. Ive hiked 50 miles up and down 7000 
>> ft
>> mountains with 130 total pounds of gear in 6 days. I've seen what women 
>> do
>> around marines or what spouses and husbands do away from each other for 6
>> months or a year. How some choose to whore themselves out.
>>
>> Sorry if I'm venting but I tired of how people read shit but don't live 
>> it.
>> I have had 14 buddies that have served oversees in this stupid current 
>> war.
>> I know as well as Tom knows that the military trains for any outcome. I 
>> am
>> very aware that our military is more mobile than 20 years ago. However, I 
>> am
>> quite sure all branches train for when your vehicle breaks down and you 
>> have
>> to hike out. Just like they teach a desk jockey how to shoot a gun.
>>
>> Sue, I don't feel that most women can do infantry training. But, I don't
>> hold that against them. I am sure that some can. I am just uneasy about 
>> all
>> the other stuff hidden behind closed doors, which can destroy morale and 
>> end
>> up killing people.
>>
>>
>>
>> Again sorry if I vented it's nothing towards you, just something that I
>> needed to get off my chest, as well as everyone should know.
>>
>> Take care
>> matt
>>
>>
>> >From: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
>> >To: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>, <thansen at moscow.com>,
>> ><vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
>> >Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:56:28 -0700
>> >
>> >I really don't deny you make a point that needs to be considered. I 
>> >think
>> >people who have experienced certain situations first hand, need to have
>> >their opinions thoughtfully considered.   But in a discussion of 
>> >pregnant
>> >female military and the causes for that condition, and then using that 
>> >as a
>> >reason to exclude them from combat,  one might liken some of it, maybe a
>> >lot of it, to putting a curfew on women because rapists prowl at night 
>> >(see
>> >today's Doonsbury, too).   And if there  are some men who can't handle 
>> >an
>> >infantry payload, no one has suggested this means all should be 
>> >excluded.
>> >During Desert Storm,  I resented the fact that we sent women to protect 
>> >the
>> >interests of Saudia Arabia, and those women weren't even allowed to 
>> >leave
>> >the military compound or drive a car into a town.  And a number were 
>> >killed
>> >in the bombing of their barracks.
>> >
>> >Something else we need to consider:  Inasmuch as males must register for
>> >the draft at age 18, then why should females not also have to register? 
>> >And
>> >when, and if, the draft is reauthorized then all young people would be
>> >eligible and expected to serve.   But that doesn't touch on your issue, 
>> >I
>> >know.
>> >
>> >Sue
>> >----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
>> >To: <thansen at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 10:45 PM
>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
>> >
>> >
>> >>For those of you that feel women should be put into combat situations,
>> >>mainly infantry orientated units let me give you my side. And please
>> >>withhold from calling me a sexist, if you must call me anything, call 
>> >>me a
>> >>realist. These points below are the ONLY points I stand on and nothing
>> >>more.
>> >>
>> >>1. Most women can't handle a infantry payload. Some can and more power 
>> >>to
>> >>them, but majority can't. Not saying that I'm basing my opinion on this
>> >>principle, but it does serve an ideal. EX. When I was in, we had many
>> >>ops/humps that consisted of a 20+ mile hike/hump with a 40+ pound pack 
>> >>on
>> >>our backs, not including the weapons and gear, another 30 pounds. Many 
>> >>of
>> >>men didn't make it. Dehydration, broken bones, etc. One mission was a 
>> >>one
>> >>week operation with vector packs. We did this mission for future 
>> >>potential
>> >>Korea conflicts. In other words mountianous area of 7000 ft plus. Our
>> >>packs
>> >>had 100 pounds not including the 30 ponds of water, ammo, and other 
>> >>such
>> >>items. Like I said If a women can do this more power to her.
>> >>
>> >>This is the weakest points of my arguement
>> >>
>> >>2. There was a common phrase in the marines, more like a joke, in which 
>> >>I
>> >>saw true too many times.When is the only time you see a WM(women 
>> >>Marine)
>> >>not
>> >>pregnant,,,,,,,,,,,, in boot camp(being that Marines males and females 
>> >>are
>> >>seperated during that phase). In a infantry unit 40-45 men will go into
>> >>combat. Each time someone falls out of position or has a medical 
>> >>problem,
>> >>another has to either fill that spot or most likely create a void. 
>> >>Taking
>> >>away from the unit. This can greatly increase the chance that another 
>> >>unit
>> >>unit member will get injured or killed.
>> >>
>> >>Let's say that a unit consists of 45 people 35 of those are male, I 
>> >>will
>> >>promise you that 6 of those will be pregnant within six months. With a
>> >>bunch
>> >>of horny males jerking off too sears catalogs, what else would you
>> >>suspect.
>> >>This loss ONLY hurts the whole unit, taking away from the time the
>> >>military
>> >>has put forth in training these fine women. I don't know about all of 
>> >>you,
>> >>but if I'm going to combat I would rather have a full force than one 
>> >>that
>> >>has been depleted due to a curable cause.
>> >>
>> >>3. Fratinization (spelling, Yup I know I will never win a spelling bee 
>> >>but
>> >>what the hell),  has destroyed units. I have seen way too many times 
>> >>women
>> >>humping upper ranks to get their goals met, what ever that be. Meaning
>> >>that
>> >>someone, yet again has to fill a void of a now vacant spot. Whether 
>> >>that
>> >>be
>> >>the first person through the door or a tow gunner, since now they are a
>> >>desk
>> >>jockey. Believe it or not people this happens everyday. There is no 
>> >>need
>> >>for
>> >>it in a combat situation. This only causes animosity throughout the 
>> >>whole
>> >>unit, which I might remind you is one of the goals,the unit.
>> >>
>> >>4. Of course there are other items such as women serving in a infantry
>> >>situation, in a middle east area. Or the possible outcome of beheaded
>> >>women
>> >>displayed all over the news.
>> >>
>> >>These items are dear to me. Only because Ive seen some of them too 
>> >>often.
>> >>I've never been in combat, and commend those that have sacrificed, 
>> >>Women
>> >>and
>> >>Men. I just don't feel women should ever serve in an infantry unit 
>> >>period.
>> >>Not because of the physical  part, but what happens to units and how 
>> >>much
>> >>it
>> >>can do to that unit.
>> >>
>> >>If and only if these items can be fixed, then will I feel in full
>> >>confidence, that women should be in INFANTRY organizations.
>> >>
>> >>Oh yeah and before anyone asks "why is it that other noncombatant units
>> >>due
>> >>fine with women, so why can't infantry deal with it" approach. let me 
>> >>just
>> >>remind you that infantry units deal mostly with numbers. Don't believe 
>> >>me
>> >>check out WW2, korea, Vietnam, First gulf war, and the one now.
>> >>
>> >>Take care
>> >>
>> >>Matt
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>> >>>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
>> >>>Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:07:16 -0700
>> >>>
>> >>>For those of you who do not believe women should be permitted in 
>> >>>uniform,
>> >>>let alone in combat, I commend to you:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>"Band of Sisters" by Kirsten Holmstedt
>> >>>
>> >>>http://www.mil-mall.com/product902.html
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>It is an excellent read.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Seeya round town, Moscow.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Tom Hansen
>> >>>
>> >>>Moscow, Idaho
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>=======================================================
>> >>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >>>                http://www.fsr.net
>> >>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >>>=======================================================
>> >>
>> >>_________________________________________________________________
>> >>http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507
>> >>
>> >>=======================================================
>> >>List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >>               http://www.fsr.net
>> >>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >>=======================================================
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>--
>> >>No virus found in this incoming message.
>> >>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> >>Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.8/904 - Release Date: 
>> >>7/16/2007
>> >>5:42 PM
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
>> http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.10/908 - Release Date: 7/19/2007 
> 6:10 PM
>
>

More information about the Vision2020 mailing list