[Vision2020] women in authority and leadership

Matt Decker mattd2107 at hotmail.com
Fri Jul 20 15:37:41 PDT 2007 

Roger,

No doubt about it.

Matt


>From: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
>Reply-To: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
>To: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>,   suehovey at moscow.com,   
>thansen at moscow.com,   vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
>Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 09:25:54 -0700
>
>I agree with Matt, however there are plenty of things women can do to serve 
>besides combat.
>
>Roger
>-----Original message-----
>From: "Matt Decker" mattd2107 at hotmail.com
>Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:52:24 -0700
>To: suehovey at moscow.com,  thansen at moscow.com,  vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
>
> > Sue,
> >
> > It's nice to see someone besides us military boys talking about this. I
> > understand your concerns, which I'm sure do happen time to time. I doubt
> > though, that in the case of rape, it happens very often. Of course in
> > situations such as those women shouldn't be discharged. One must( I 
>can't
> > state enough) realize that every time someone, women or men, leaves 
>their
> > unit for whatever that be, drastically hurts the unit.
> >
> > Having a possibility for a women to be raped and having one if not two
> > people withdrawn from that unit only further makes me more confident 
>about
> > my opinion.What if one of those women are in a leadership role.Believe 
>me
> > I've seen a women lietantant (spelling again) flown home from ship from 
>an
> > unwanted pregnancy. War is not about political correctness, but rather
> > lives. Women in the infantry will cause more causalities in my sexiest(
> > thanks Tom) opinion. So be it though. I've seen first hand what the 
>infantry
> > is about.
> >
> > Ive trained with Force Recon and the Navy seals. I've fast roped out of
> > helicopters with 80 pounds of gear. Ive hiked 50 miles up and down 7000 
>ft
> > mountains with 130 total pounds of gear in 6 days. I've seen what women 
>do
> > around marines or what spouses and husbands do away from each other for 
>6
> > months or a year. How some choose to whore themselves out.
> >
> > Sorry if I'm venting but I tired of how people read shit but don't live 
>it.
> > I have had 14 buddies that have served oversees in this stupid current 
>war.
> > I know as well as Tom knows that the military trains for any outcome. I 
>am
> > very aware that our military is more mobile than 20 years ago. However, 
>I am
> > quite sure all branches train for when your vehicle breaks down and you 
>have
> > to hike out. Just like they teach a desk jockey how to shoot a gun.
> >
> > Sue, I don't feel that most women can do infantry training. But, I don't
> > hold that against them. I am sure that some can. I am just uneasy about 
>all
> > the other stuff hidden behind closed doors, which can destroy morale and 
>end
> > up killing people.
> >
> >
> >
> > Again sorry if I vented it's nothing towards you, just something that I
> > needed to get off my chest, as well as everyone should know.
> >
> > Take care
> > matt
> >
> >
> > >From: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
> > >To: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>, <thansen at moscow.com>,
> > ><vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
> > >Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:56:28 -0700
> > >
> > >I really don't deny you make a point that needs to be considered. I 
>think
> > >people who have experienced certain situations first hand, need to have
> > >their opinions thoughtfully considered.   But in a discussion of 
>pregnant
> > >female military and the causes for that condition, and then using that 
>as a
> > >reason to exclude them from combat,  one might liken some of it, maybe 
>a
> > >lot of it, to putting a curfew on women because rapists prowl at night 
>(see
> > >today's Doonsbury, too).   And if there  are some men who can't handle 
>an
> > >infantry payload, no one has suggested this means all should be 
>excluded.
> > >During Desert Storm,  I resented the fact that we sent women to protect 
>the
> > >interests of Saudia Arabia, and those women weren't even allowed to 
>leave
> > >the military compound or drive a car into a town.  And a number were 
>killed
> > >in the bombing of their barracks.
> > >
> > >Something else we need to consider:  Inasmuch as males must register 
>for
> > >the draft at age 18, then why should females not also have to register? 
>And
> > >when, and if, the draft is reauthorized then all young people would be
> > >eligible and expected to serve.   But that doesn't touch on your issue, 
>I
> > >know.
> > >
> > >Sue
> > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Decker" 
><mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
> > >To: <thansen at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 10:45 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
> > >
> > >
> > >>For those of you that feel women should be put into combat situations,
> > >>mainly infantry orientated units let me give you my side. And please
> > >>withhold from calling me a sexist, if you must call me anything, call 
>me a
> > >>realist. These points below are the ONLY points I stand on and nothing
> > >>more.
> > >>
> > >>1. Most women can't handle a infantry payload. Some can and more power 
>to
> > >>them, but majority can't. Not saying that I'm basing my opinion on 
>this
> > >>principle, but it does serve an ideal. EX. When I was in, we had many
> > >>ops/humps that consisted of a 20+ mile hike/hump with a 40+ pound pack 
>on
> > >>our backs, not including the weapons and gear, another 30 pounds. Many 
>of
> > >>men didn't make it. Dehydration, broken bones, etc. One mission was a 
>one
> > >>week operation with vector packs. We did this mission for future 
>potential
> > >>Korea conflicts. In other words mountianous area of 7000 ft plus. Our
> > >>packs
> > >>had 100 pounds not including the 30 ponds of water, ammo, and other 
>such
> > >>items. Like I said If a women can do this more power to her.
> > >>
> > >>This is the weakest points of my arguement
> > >>
> > >>2. There was a common phrase in the marines, more like a joke, in 
>which I
> > >>saw true too many times.When is the only time you see a WM(women 
>Marine)
> > >>not
> > >>pregnant,,,,,,,,,,,, in boot camp(being that Marines males and females 
>are
> > >>seperated during that phase). In a infantry unit 40-45 men will go 
>into
> > >>combat. Each time someone falls out of position or has a medical 
>problem,
> > >>another has to either fill that spot or most likely create a void. 
>Taking
> > >>away from the unit. This can greatly increase the chance that another 
>unit
> > >>unit member will get injured or killed.
> > >>
> > >>Let's say that a unit consists of 45 people 35 of those are male, I 
>will
> > >>promise you that 6 of those will be pregnant within six months. With a
> > >>bunch
> > >>of horny males jerking off too sears catalogs, what else would you
> > >>suspect.
> > >>This loss ONLY hurts the whole unit, taking away from the time the
> > >>military
> > >>has put forth in training these fine women. I don't know about all of 
>you,
> > >>but if I'm going to combat I would rather have a full force than one 
>that
> > >>has been depleted due to a curable cause.
> > >>
> > >>3. Fratinization (spelling, Yup I know I will never win a spelling bee 
>but
> > >>what the hell),  has destroyed units. I have seen way too many times 
>women
> > >>humping upper ranks to get their goals met, what ever that be. Meaning
> > >>that
> > >>someone, yet again has to fill a void of a now vacant spot. Whether 
>that
> > >>be
> > >>the first person through the door or a tow gunner, since now they are 
>a
> > >>desk
> > >>jockey. Believe it or not people this happens everyday. There is no 
>need
> > >>for
> > >>it in a combat situation. This only causes animosity throughout the 
>whole
> > >>unit, which I might remind you is one of the goals,the unit.
> > >>
> > >>4. Of course there are other items such as women serving in a infantry
> > >>situation, in a middle east area. Or the possible outcome of beheaded
> > >>women
> > >>displayed all over the news.
> > >>
> > >>These items are dear to me. Only because Ive seen some of them too 
>often.
> > >>I've never been in combat, and commend those that have sacrificed, 
>Women
> > >>and
> > >>Men. I just don't feel women should ever serve in an infantry unit 
>period.
> > >>Not because of the physical  part, but what happens to units and how 
>much
> > >>it
> > >>can do to that unit.
> > >>
> > >>If and only if these items can be fixed, then will I feel in full
> > >>confidence, that women should be in INFANTRY organizations.
> > >>
> > >>Oh yeah and before anyone asks "why is it that other noncombatant 
>units
> > >>due
> > >>fine with women, so why can't infantry deal with it" approach. let me 
>just
> > >>remind you that infantry units deal mostly with numbers. Don't believe 
>me
> > >>check out WW2, korea, Vietnam, First gulf war, and the one now.
> > >>
> > >>Take care
> > >>
> > >>Matt
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> > >>>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
> > >>>Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:07:16 -0700
> > >>>
> > >>>For those of you who do not believe women should be permitted in 
>uniform,
> > >>>let alone in combat, I commend to you:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>"Band of Sisters" by Kirsten Holmstedt
> > >>>
> > >>>http://www.mil-mall.com/product902.html
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>It is an excellent read.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>Seeya round town, Moscow.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>Tom Hansen
> > >>>
> > >>>Moscow, Idaho
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>=======================================================
> > >>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > >>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >>>                http://www.fsr.net
> > >>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >>>=======================================================
> > >>
> > >>_________________________________________________________________
> > 
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> > >>
> > >>=======================================================
> > >>List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > >>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >>               http://www.fsr.net
> > >>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >>=======================================================
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>--
> > >>No virus found in this incoming message.
> > >>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > >>Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.8/904 - Release Date: 
>7/16/2007
> > >>5:42 PM
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! > 
>http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2
> >
> >
> >

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