[Vision2020] Response to Mr. Budge's misfacts--Gritman/UI

[Donovan Arnold]

Mr. Budge,

Thank you for actually taking the time to go over this issue. Most people 
don’t give a damn about the welfare of the students and if they are getting 
screwed out of benefits. It is at least evident that you do. And I very much 
doubt your IQ is in the neighborhood of 80.  But that just means you are 
legally accountable for your actions. :P And that can be a big negative 
sometimes.

Rather than making our correspondence longer and more complicated, I will 
make it simple, and provide you with enough information.

Here are my objections and complains

1)	I cannot get other health insurance besides what UI provides me.
2)	UI and Gritman cut my benefits
3)	I cannot get the health services I need and was getting before 2002
4)	They are charging me more than any other college or university in the 
state
5)	All of this was done to benefit Gritman and UI financially at the health 
of the students

This is fact.

If you want information on this that is fine.

Evidence for my complaints.

I don’t have the ability to buy health insurance from UI AND another health 
insurance provider. Why do I have to have both insurances you ask? Because 
the only health insurance I can afford to buy doesn’t have $500,000 worth of 
coverage, which I don’t need. I want health insurance that has a lower limit 
and instead covers things that I need. The University requires this $500,000 
to opt out of their program. So I am forced to have their health insurance 
rather than one that address my needs and the needs of most college students 
and we had before 2002.

2) and 3) The University cut my benefits. I use to have dental, I no longer 
do. I now have to pay 25% more, and I get 25% less. That isn’t a better 
plan. The things that I used, and the things that MOST the college students 
used, were cut. I don’t care if other benefits were added, sure my co-pay 
for a mammogram might be less, but guess what, that benefit doesn’t do me 
crap. I would rather have my annual health exams back because I can USE 
them. And I don’t give a crap what people in France, England, or Montana are 
co-paying for a mammogram. I don’t need it. I would rather pay 25% more for 
stuff I need then others then pay 20% less for benefits 99.9999999% of 
college students use.

4) BSU ISU, LCSC, all show and prove that it is possible to have an 
insurance plan that is cheaper than $1000 a year. Why not give the students 
an option what type of plan they want? Of course BSU has a higher 
deductible, they only pay 60% of what UI students do. But they also only 
have to have $65,000 in coverage from another plan to opt out, not $500,000. 
They also provide services, even if at a higher deductible, for things that 
students are more likely to need and use. They also have dental as an 
option. UI students have no dental, not even an option. And again, I cannot 
afford $500,000 coverage to opt out of UI’s plan to get dental.

5)	The major difference between the Student Health Insurance Plan in 2002 
and the ones before was that it dropped most of the popular benefits that 
students used, like dental, x-ray scans,  skin treatment, and STD testing, 
and replaced it with a $1,000,000 lifetime policy and a $500,000 
catastrophic coverage policy and added a 25% increase in cost. This cannot 
possibly benefit students. Most UI students don’t need $1,000,000 in 
coverage and don’t have $500,000 in property, or even close to that, to 
protect incase they get into an expensive accident, like a car wreck. 
Further, students are going to need dental. And they don’t have the cash for 
that usually, especially a root canal. So this major change is NOT in their 
best interests. So why would this change occur?

Well, the obvious question to ask is if the change is not benefiting the 
students to a greater extent, who is it benefiting? One of the people that 
would be benefiting would be the people that don’t have to pay for the 
medical costs if a student has a $250,000 accident and has no insurance that 
covers that amount. Those people would be the people that run Gritman 
because they are required to pay for indigent care if they don’t have enough 
insurance.

Another group of people that might benefit would be UI Administration if 
they would not have to provide medical services and still collect the fees 
for them.

Now, let us just suppose UI and Gritman got to together and decided to make 
an agreement to require UI students to buy health insurance that was so high 
in coverage that Gritman would not have to pay the indigent medical costs 
anymore. And they decided that UI would get to keep the $20 a semester fee, 
and an administration fee for the outsourcing of student health services, 
which would go to Gritman of course?

Now you are right, this is just one conspiracy theory, except for one thing, 
it did happen. It happened because the same person that was Chair of the 
Board of Directors at Gritman was also the UI Administrator in charge of the 
student health insurance plan (SHIP) that put the $500,000 requirement on 
the health insurance. The result of all this is also documented in the 
Gritman financial statements, and UI’s Budget, which I showed you a link to 
in another email.

This is why UI and Gritman don’t care if I get $500,000 coverage elsewhere. 
UI still gets their fee and Gritman doesn’t have to worry about paying for 
my head injury.

You can make the argument that it is irresponsible for a student to pass 
medical costs on to the community when they could have afforded health 
insurance. But forcing students to purchase $500,000 in coverage, giving up 
needed coverage and even HIV testing and dental, all so Gritman doesn’t have 
to pay for an accident not covered is a horrible, miserable way to solve a 
problem. In addition, Gritman is paid by the government to take care of 
those students that cannot afford health insurance, and pay into that 
indigent fund. Students are now paying both into the indigent fund and 
buying expensive health insurance at the cost of their health for the 
benefit of Gritman and UI.

It is not a conspiracy because it was done in the open. And it is not 
illegal because they took the precautions of making it legal by going to the 
Board of Education and making it so. They even when through the trouble of 
putting it in the odd location of the Student Benefits packet to make sure 
you saw that it was. However, that doesn’t mean that it is not wrong, and 
unfair, and it has hurt many people.

I don’t know what other evidence you want for what I am saying. Anyone can 
look this information up at UI or Gritman. If you are confused as to where 
to look, I can gave you a few pointers.

I am personally mad at Gritman and some UI Administrators because they cost 
me $1000s and $1000s of dollars by cutting my benefits and bar me from 
getting adequate health insurance with the $500,000 rule which continues to 
cost me money while I am a students. It is totally wrong they do that to 
college students. I don’t have a problem with the people that work at 
Gritman, just those that continue this costly unfair policy that keeps me 
and other students from getting the medical care they need. I don’t like the 
government controlling what health care I need and what I can do with my 
money. I should be able to freely use my money to by health insurance that 
addresses my health needs. Not have to buy health insurance that covers the 
needs of Gritman.

Take Care,

Donovan J Arnold




>From: "David M. Budge" <dave at vitamaximum.com>
>To: Donovan Arnold <donovanarnold at hotmail.com>
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com, bjswan at moscow.com, dave at davebudge.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Response to Mr. Budge's misfacts--Gritman/UI
>Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:42:29 +0000
>
>You got me there Mr. Arnold.  I was unable to complete my MENSA application 
>due to my inability to spell and I figure I have an IQ of about 81, but 
>hey, who's counting.
>
>For the sake of efficiency I'll make notes in red below your latest 
>comments.  And just to add a little context, beside being a Registered 
>Investment Advisor, I'm also licensed to sell health insurance in several 
>states (of which I admittedly do little.)
>
>Donovan Arnold wrote:
>
>>Mr. Budge, and others rushing to defend something you have no clue about,
>>
>>"Have some of you been raised under heavy power transmission lines or grew 
>>up on a diet of lead based paint chips. I take what I can stands and I 
>>can't stands it no more."--DB
>>
>>Well Popeye, any time you would like to compare IQs that is find with me. 
>>I know me WISC score, what bout u? I even got it be documated. God knows I 
>>have my social disabilities, but IQ is not one of them things I score low 
>>on.
>>
>>"A)  Accrording to the online U of I Student Health Insurance Program 
>>brochure, the Idaho State Board of Education requires proof of health 
>>insurance for ALL publicly funded institutions of higher education in the 
>>state.  This is not solely a U of I policy." --D. Budge
>>
>>That law is there because UI and Gritman lobbied for it. Only 25% of 
>>public colleges mandate health insurance. UI automatically charges all 
>>students (4 or more credits) $1000 for the Student Health Insurance 
>>Program (SHIP). Students must prove they already have $500,000 in coverage 
>>and meet other stipulations to wave out of SHIP. Since most 18-22 
>>year-olds don't know details about their insurance as dependents on their 
>>parent's policy (ask one at randam if you doubt), they do not wave out. 
>>Many parents, who pay for their child's education, do not analyze the fee 
>>breakdown to realize they are paying for double insurance (ask one if you 
>>doubt). Further, UI exceeds the state requirements for health insurance, 
>>in both amount, about $500,000, a student status, 4 credits instead of 8. 
>>Just read yourself.   
>>http://www.idahoboardofed.org/policies/health_insurance/index.asp
>
>Perhaps it is true that the U of I and Gritman lobbied for this bill.  I 
>would have as well seeing that college students, typically not 
>understanding their own subjection to morbidity and mortality tend to 
>ignore the risks of mundane existence. I also dispute that most parents do 
>not analyze the fee breakdown as patently untrue. Accordingly, using Adam 
>Smith's tenet that purchases are made rationally, I think the postulate 
>those who can do not opt out of the fee is absurd.  Surely it happens form 
>time to time, but this system isn't designed to protect stupidity or 
>neglect.
>
>You are also correct that part time students have more leeway in not 
>participating in the SHIP program at Boise State.  Several causes may be in 
>play here, not the least of which may be the contract with Mega to ensure 
>an adequate number of students participate to keep premiums low.  This 
>question of policy is beyond us both, but I find no evidence that it has 
>anything to do with greed on the part of Gritman, Moscow Family Medicine, 
>or Student Health Services.
>
>>
>>
>>"B) The insurance program is underwritten and administered by the Mega 
>>Life and Health Insurance Company of America.  Ergo, the University makes 
>>not one damn dime form the insurance program."-DB
>>
>>Incorrect Mr. Budge. It is ONLY underwritten by Mega Life Insurance (MLA). 
>>It is administrated by (http://www.klais.com/services/students.htm) Klais 
>>& Company. You would know this if you had SHIP because it is printed on 
>>the insurance form. The services are also administered by Gritman.
>>     UI makes money in three ways. It still charges students for health 
>>insurance services it use to provide but is now outsourcing. This fee is 
>>$40 per full time student. Second, And it makes another chunk of change 
>>because the amount of money it charges, $1000, is not the same amount it 
>>pays out to pay the insurance company. So times $40 by 8,000 students. 
>>Then times 6,500 students by $50-100. Add together. Subtract cost they 
>>don't have to pay to provide sevices they are now outsourcing, That is how 
>>much they are making just from those three sources. Gritman is making 
>>money because UI is now outsourcing students to them instead of servicing 
>>them at the UI Health Center. Understand? Or is this too confusing for you 
>>to follow?
>
>I stand correct as well that Mega does not administer the program.  After 
>some review, I learned that Klais is an independent third party 
>administrator (TPA) that performs as an intermediary claims management 
>service to coordinate claims between the three providers under the umbrella 
>system of SHIP.  In insurance vernacular, administration applies to claims 
>processing.  It is unlikely then that Gritman does not provide this 
>function.  I'll admit I don't know for sure but I can assure you that it 
>would be highly unlikely unless Gritman was an HMO, which they appear not 
>to be.
>
>Next, your understanding of how the self-insured portion of the U of I SHIP 
>program works over the long run if in fact one exists.  It appears that the 
>University pays a flat fee to Moscow Family Medicine to cover all the 
>health needs of the enrollees delivered through Moscow Family Medicine. 
>This then puts the "risk" of a higher level of services provided that what 
>are estimated on Moscow Family Medicine.  If a lower number of services is 
>provided they get to pocket the difference.  This type of HMO model 
>benefits the U of I in that it knows the sum certain of expenses to be paid 
>though Student Health Services.  If, on the other hand, the University is 
>self insured it takes the risk that Moscow Family Medicine would take under 
>the other scenario.  Any surpluses would be help in reserve to cover "high 
>claims" years or used to provide additional benefits or lower fees.  I 
>challenge you to show me that this is a profit center for the University.  
>If it is, who then profits?  Would funds collected for general 
>administration be used for poor purposes outside the charter of the 
>University?
>
>>
>>
>>C) The cost of the insurance is about 25% less than the cost of comparable 
>>individual policies purchased through any other competitive program in the 
>>state.  Pretty good deal ask ANY insurance agent.
>>
>>Bullhonky(I think this is a word) Mister!! Did you even LOOK before making 
>>such a fallacious statement? UI students pay $1000 a year. Boise State 
>>University Students pay $756 year. ISU and LCSC $660 or even less. Every 
>>public university and college in the state of Idaho pays less then UI 
>>students. And you know what else?-- They get the OPTION of having vision 
>>and/or dental.
>
>
>It also is important to understand the difference in the policies between 
>the U of I and BSU.  The pricing differential is a function of benefits.  
>Of particular not is the $250 annual deductible for the U of I program 
>compared to the $500 annual deductible for BSU.  There are many other 
>significant differences as well.  For example, preexisting conditions are 
>excluded from the BSU plan unless covered under HIPAA (Health Insurance 
>Portability and Accountability Act) where the U of I has open enrollment.  
>This is a biggie.  Secondly, the BSU program has more restrictive limits on 
>certain services such as a $5,000 annual cap on mental health services 
>compared to a $10,000 cap at the U of I.  The BSU program does have some 
>lower co-payment such as a $5 doctors visit compared with a $12 fee at U of 
>I.  By in large, however, it is impossible to say which program is more 
>economical as each health incident is unique.  I would guess, however, that 
>more students pay larger out of pocket expenses with the $500 deductible.  
>By the way, BSU outsources all of its student health services. The link for 
>the BSU program is here:  
>http://www.boisestate.edu/healthservices/insurance/benefits_summary_chart.asp
>
>Additionally, I know from my practice that a comparable insurance policy 
>for a 20 year old male in Montana would run about $1,400 -$2,000 per year 
>if purchased as an individual policy.  Since SHIP is a group policy it is 
>cheaper that what young working stiffs have to pay.
>
>>
>>
>>"D) The $11 million charged off for indigent care cannot be written off on 
>>their taxes.  They don't pay income taxes for cripes sake.  They're a 
>>not-for-profit entity!!!!"
>>
>>The doctors are the ones that provide the $11,000,000 in care and they are 
>>for profit companies, Doctors are not free agents. So YES, they can and do 
>>write that off. Don't confuse the contracted doctors and the hospitals. 
>>See how you even confuse yourself--HAHA! (sorry have to laugh at self 
>>induced confusion)
>
>I don't have the annual report, but I think you're dead wrong here.  
>Hospitals bill their services separately from doctors.  Any losses the 
>doctors have are tax deductible, but I'll take B.J. Swanson as the 
>authority here.  So no, the $11,000,0000 is not tax deductible.  I'll bet 
>the permanent teeth of all six of my kids on it.
>
>>
>>
>>"E) Who, exactly should pay for indigent care?  What is happening right 
>>now is that everyone else is paying for those who can't through $20 
>>bandaids.  In fact, the people who get screwed the most are those who 
>>either have not the benefit of a collectively bargained health plan (like 
>>SHIP) or a government program (like Medicaid and Medicare) but I'll get to 
>>that in a moment. Write you strinkin' congressman!"
>>
>>The state government PAYS Gritman through earmarked funds (VAT value added 
>>taxes on liquor which students pay into and their contribution exceeds 
>>what Gritman pays for indigent students) to take care of indigents. If the 
>>amount of indigent funds exceeds the government funds for indigent care 
>>then Gritman has to absorb those extra costs. If Gritman goes under that 
>>amount, it gets to KEEP the extra amount. Get how they make money now if 
>>there are no indigents? Confused or clear on this?
>
>No, I'm not clear on this.  In Fund Balance Accounting all revenues are 
>recognized and accordingly the $11,000,000 charge-off tells us specifically 
>that there were not enough revenues to cover the costs of services, hence 
>Gritman (whoever he is) has no excess funds for non-payers.  Get me the 
>annual report and I'll explain it to you.  I'll also bet you anything you 
>want on this issue.  If I'm wrong I'll push a bowling ball down the middle 
>of Main Street with my now while wearing a tutu.
>
>>
>>
>>"Now, as I say, I don't have a dog in this fight (although I was born 
>>there and delivered by the legendary Dr. Wilson for all you townies who 
>>may care.)  The current health system in this country is a disaster, but 
>>that's little fault of the hospitals.  It's systemic."--DB
>>
>>Right it is. And it is a disaster because why? We all know corruption and 
>>greed is occurring in every state and city except ours? Is that what you 
>>think? No corruption in Moscow, no greed, nobody trying to get ahead or 
>>twist the system just a bit in their favor? Right, we all know Moscow is 
>>nothing but incorruptible saints. We also know that if someone where to 
>>come up with a way to make money off mandating health insurance, we would 
>>all know, those people would be mean, have no friends, have horns, a tail, 
>>and a have a specific line put on a bill statement that was clearly marked 
>>that read,
>>
>>"Corruption and Fraud............................$200"
>>
>>Right in there somewhere between capsules and crutches. Obviously clever 
>>people would not think to use an indirect approach that required a little 
>>bit of research and inside knowledge to get at any real understanding of 
>>what was going on. We are also fairly certain that since this health 
>>insurance program was established under the direct supervision of Dr. 
>>Hoover it is fiscally sound and in the long term best interests of the 
>>students, University, and community--no evidence to contradict this 
>>certain fact, right?
>
>This is just hyperbole.  If you have evidence of corruption that go to the 
>authorities and stop throwing out libelous accusations.  I don't know Dr. 
>Hoover and I don't care.  You're going to get yourself sued.  Who is 
>profiting from this besides the purveyors of the services.  The University 
>isn't a person nor is Gritman.  They are "owned" by the public as  not for 
>profit entities.
>
>>
>>
>>"I assume, but I don't know for sure, that Gritman makes its annual 
>>reports available, in one form or another,  to anyone who asks for it.   
>>The accounting used is called Fund Balance Accounting where there is no 
>>equity per say as there is no ownership.
>>
>>Right, like I said, look for the line that says, "Corruption and 
>>Fraud...................................$200". they document that stuff 
>>well in publically released budget statements, usually now found online. 
>>Be careful though, sometimes they hide it under "Fraud and Corruption 
>>(Hint: look under the F's)."
>
>This is unsubstantiated paranoia.
>
>>
>>
>>Anyone with a bone to pick with Gritman should get that statement before 
>>casting ad hominem attacks based on groundless assumptions and vacuous 
>>logic.  My guess is, being familiar with such things, that Gritaman has a 
>>minimal "free funds balance" and just about all resources are earmarked 
>>for specific programs.  If you're really so full of piss and vinegar on 
>>the issue get involved, donate your time to the hospital, and study the 
>>finacials, so no one has to subsidize you ignorance with spilled ink."
>>
>>Mr. Budge, I am very well versed in SHIP. I was an ASUI senator for two 
>>years and watched this whole SHIP get started from infancy to birth, ASUI 
>>was a part of it. I have a stack of the paper work of it being developed. 
>>I have lots and lots of documentation on this issue. And I didn't happen 
>>upon my understanding of what Gritman and UI were doing by my own right. I 
>>had doctors, nurses, administrators, and students at UI that approached me 
>>because I was the only ASUI Senator that was openly and loudly opposed to 
>>the mandatory Health Insurance Policy and a 25% increase in costs that 
>>gave students less benefits. I didn't figure it out on my own, I had about 
>>6 people (professionals, not students) tell me directly.
>
>Your protestation over mandatory insurance may have merit.  But your 
>overall understanding of the health care system is far too provincial.  You 
>have a complete right to question the program, but you better have more 
>than nasty accusations when you accuse people of corruption that anything 
>I've seen here.  You're facts just don't back up your rhetoric.
>
>>
>>
>>"Lastly, is it so wrong that anyone makes a profit on anything?  How 
>>ridiculously obtuse is this proposition?  We live in a market economy and, 
>>although it sometimes lacks in fairness, it seems the best current model 
>>in the egalitarian distribution of goods and services.  (hint to Mr. 
>>Arnold - you've got a University in Moscow - how 'bout econ 101.)"--DB
>>
>>Well, Mr. Budge, first, show me where I said I opposed profit? I never did 
>>say that. It seems to me the only way you can win an argument is if you 
>>get everyone to agree on false statements as being fact or changing the 
>>argument to be something I did not make. I am all for profit. But I 
>>believe in honest profit. Not corruption. It is unfair and unethical to 
>>give some businesses tax free state supported business and tax exemptions  
>>based on who are their friends. It should be based on merit ONLY.
>
>Again, corruption?  Show us some facts.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Then pathetic whiners that think everything in the country relative to 
>>commerce is out to get them will have the opportunity to take their 
>>pathetic paranoia and pound sand. You should be thanking him for doing 
>>otherwise thankless work. "
>>
>>No Mr. Budge, I think it is corruption that PREVENTS honest and hard 
>>working men and women from getting a fair deal. It is people screwing 
>>other people out of a fair shake that is wrong. Not free enterprise. I 
>>think it is sick and twisted to make people buy $500,000 coverage health 
>>insurance, even people on Medicaid, or otherwise be disqualified from 
>>getting a college education. Is that Libertarian? That is wrong, and 
>>unfair to the poor. And I will not apologize. Thousands of students pay 
>>for SHIP and they don't even know it because they are enrolled 
>>automatically. YOU DON"T THINK THAT IS WRONG?? It is just fine and dandy 
>>to screw poor students out the last few bucks they got left?? Those 
>>dollars should go to businesses that WORK for their money right here in 
>>Moscow,  not siphoned out to some insurance company in Ohio.
>
>People on Medicaid can opt out as they have proof of insurance. And no, 
>it's not libertarian.  True Libertarian ideologues would say cover your own 
>expenses and to hell with indigent care.  As I've told you, I'm not a 
>libertarian ideologue and I believe that we are a wealthy enough country to 
>support those truly in need.
>
>>
>>
>>"You may have an argument for socialized medicine (regardless of how wrong 
>>heades it may be) but you're making assumptions here that are based on, 
>>from what I can tell ...nothing."--DB
>>
>>Just because everything they say that is wrong about Socialism is correct 
>>doesn't't mean everything about Capitalism is perfect. Balance is the key. 
>>Get rid of corruption and health costs will drop dramatically. Take care 
>>of those that are poor and sick and cannot take care of themselves and 
>>they get well and contribute back when they are strong. Don't kick a man 
>>when he is down and weak and turn away and say it costs to much. In the 
>>long run, it is the cold shoulder that costs so much more than the warm 
>>hand.
>
>
>I said in my earlier post that capitalism was sometimes "unfair."  I'm not 
>seeing the corruption you accuse.  Hell, If I were on the board at the 
>hospital or Dr. Thompson I'ld sue you into perdition for defamation and 
>libel.
>
>>
>>
>>Remember the lesson here kids. It is better to be politically correct and 
>>defend people doing wrong that are your friends, then to stand up to the 
>>ripping off of 12,000 college students. Oh, how I get so confused by this 
>>planet and the people on it. And God forbid, that you ever say anything 
>>contrary to popular public opinion.
>>
>>Good Day,
>>
>>Donovan J Arnold
>>
>>BTW, Four generations of my family have been serviced by Gritman--And they 
>>died anyway :P Can anyone beat that?
>>
>>PS.  Even people that don't like me (about 95% of the world population) 
>>would have to agree that it was incompetence on part of Gritman not to put 
>>my ass back as soon as my head popped out in room ten. : P
>
>Listen, I reacted the way I did because I can't accept someone impugning 
>the reputation of good people trying to do good work.  I have no interest 
>in political correctness and I certainly wasn't trying to chum up to 
>anyone.  My politics are 180 degrees from many, if not most, of the people 
>on this list. The difference between me and you, it appears, is that I go 
>through life believeing that 99.99% of ALL people have good hearts.  We all 
>spend our lives getting on and doing what we need to make the drole 
>mundacity of existence something meaningful.  For all those who think that 
>there is a thief at every turn I have sadness.  Yep, we're all gunna die 
>soon.  Better we spend those last few ephermal moments of life thanking 
>those who are careing for us than worrying they're going to steal our shoes 
>after we expire.
>
>Other than that, I'm done with this, unless you can find some proof that 
>there is actual corruption going on or I'm wrong in my facts.  If you can 
>prove corruption I'll be right there to help you shackle the scalawags and 
>hoist them off to the hoosgow.  It'll be my pleasure.
>
>>
>>
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