[Vision2020] V2020 Problems: Reponse to Lucy Zoe Jones

[Art Deco aka W. Fox]

All,

There is probably not one of us who agree with all the posts on V 2020.

However, the attitude of the Christ Church Cult expressed through Canon Press, 
Ms. Jones, and her co-authors/mentors should give most of us cause for alarm.

When some person, organization, or government does not like a message, the most 
common reaction is:

[1]    To attempt to refute or to discredit the message by fair means or foul,

[2]    Failing [1], to attempt to silence the messengers by various means 
including misinformation, intimidation, destruction of their outlets, etc.

The cult has certainly not faired well on Vision 2020, even when they were 
willing participants.  They were unable to refute or successfully deny the 
points many posters made.  Hence, their cowardly, character revealing quasi-exit 
(they still read the posts but reserve their comments for their ego-protecting, 
mostly asinine web-blots).

What should concern most of us is the cult's attempt to silence their critics by 
attempting to intimidate/remove the critics' local outlets of which Vision 2020 
is one.  [They appear to have had a great deal of success in intimidating the 
Daily News, especially the management of the OP/ED section.  Vera White still 
hangs in there, though.]

The actions of the Christ Church Cult in this regard show what life under a 
theocracy/monarchy is like.  Only the views of the theoarchs/monarchs are 
permissible; everything else is considered criminal and is to be suppressed by 
any means, extreme if necessary.  Examples of this kind of behavior abound: 
Governments shut down or surreptitiously destroy news media outlets. 
Governments execute or severely punish those whose opinions, including religious 
opinions, conflict with official dogma -- Iraq, Iran, the Taliban, Saudi Arabia, 
Libya, China, etc.

For a milder version of a recent example closer to home see:

http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles/2004/12/11/news/breaking_news/doc41bad2f48131e414332343.txt
http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_2486938

Very fortunate for all of us, our constitution and constitutional form of 
government allows us the freedom of expression to explore the truth of all 
ideas.  This expression, though sometimes raucous, sometimes misleading, and 
sometimes taking us on extended detours, allows us to continue searching for the 
truth and to expose charlatans such as Cult Master Douglas Wilson.  Without 
freedom of expression and the exploration of ideas it affords, Wilson and his 
ilk are free to impose their crackpot views on us without having to give 
factual, epistemologically sound, and logically sound defenses of their dogma.

No one owns the truth, though some methods of pursuing it have been much more 
fruitful than others.  Freedom of expression is the most important right we have 
to preserve our freedom and democracy.  That is why anti-secularists like Wilson 
and his ilk are so afraid of letting others than themselves practice it.

Though I have some resolvable technical issues with FSR, I cannot say enough 
about their courage and willingness to host Vision 2020.  That is one of the 
reason I (and I suspect others) stay with them.  They must get an incredible 
amount of flack/threats/etc. over some postings from the 
intolerant/anti-democratic.  I applaud their strong, courageous, continuing 
commitment to the democratic processes upon which this country was founded.

I would also like to thank Ms. Jones and her co-authors/mentors for showing 
themselves for what they are:  frightened, would-be superstitious theocrats 
unable to rationally defend their views who seek to prevent critical comments of 
those views and to prevent other views from being publicized.

Wayne

Wayne A. Fox
waf at moscow.com
PO Box 9421
Moscow, ID 83843
208 882-7975



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: L.Z. Jones
  To: vision2020 at moscow.com
  Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 9:12 AM
  Subject: [Vision2020] V2020 Problems


  Mr. London,
  Isn't it more accurate and honest to say that First Step's customers
  subsidize V2020? No Customers - No First Step - No Vision 2020.

  I'm wondering if there is a real community need for V2020. In 2004, over
  67% of the "contributions" were submitted by 15 people. Of those emails,
  17% came from Tom Hansen and 10% from Wayne Fox. Between the two of them
  they submitted over 1,660 emails to V2020 in 2004 - and that doesn't
  include December posts. If you have MSExcel and less than 30 minutes you
  can cut, paste, and sort the emails and see the stats for yourself. Less
  time than it takes to delete the daily, irrelevant ramblings.

  You may believe V2020 is unmoderated. I disagree. It looks to me like
  Hansen and Fox are the moderators. With their band of merry friends
  they've managed to silence a community of people and take what was once
  a tool and turn it into nothing more than a weapon. Isn't it obvious why
  the majority of subscribers silently lurk? They sort out the few posts
  beneficial to the community - delete the rest - and avoid the "tolerant
  and inclusive" commentary served up at V2020.

  First Step has continued to subsidize V2020 despite injury to their
  paying customers. That's a business choice. First Step is fully aware of
  what's being said on V2020 and they've willingly overlooked it. It's the
  height of irony and foolishness to imagine that First Step is immune to
  V2020's poison.

  Lucy Jones
  Canon Press  <--- A First Step customer



  Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:30:30 -0800
  From: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] V2020 Problems

  Have you ever noticed that everyone whines and complains about their
  Internet provider, no matter what company they choose?  Too slow, too
  many ads, not enough space, etc etc And while I don't want to inhibit
  anyone's heartfelt complaints, I would like to remind everyone that
  without FSR there is no Vision2020. Simple equation... No FSR equals No
  V2020. FSR donates the service and maintenance that keeps V2020 a free,
  unmoderated list.  FSR deserves our gratitude. I use FSR.  I am happy
  with their service.  I assume others are not. But it is the height of
  irony to use V2020 to attack FSR. BL

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