[Vision2020] V2020 Problems

Mon Dec 13 17:52:49 PST 2004

Thank you, Mr. London.

Although I may not agree with all opinions expressed on this listserve, I
strongly support each (and every) person's right to express their opinion.
This grand nation and its government exists, not in spite of the critic, but
because of the critic.  The very foundation of our republic is its strength
found in the first amendment.

As I have said a long time ago on this very forum (and was criticized, for
such, by Dale Courtney):

Free to be you and me.

Tom "49er" Hansen

We could learn a lot from crayons: some are sharp, some are pretty, some are
dull, some have weird names, and all are different colors....but they all
exist very nicely in the same box. 

-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Bill London
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:59 PM
To: canonpress at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] V2020 Problems

L.Z. Jones:
    Is there a need for V2020 in this community?
    Yes, I think so, but maybe that would be clearer if I reminded you of
the history of V2020.  This unmoderated community email list was begun more
than a decade ago as an experiment in pure democracy.
    Several years ago, Doug Wilson wrote a small response to a posting on
V2020.  I, and others, encouraged him in his posting and in the resulting
community dialog, since discussion with the Christ Church hierarchy was not
available anywhere else.  Wilson, and his supporters, engaged in a spirited
dialog with a number of V2020 subscribers, on a number of topics.  I found
it all quite enlightening.
    Then Doug Wilson dropped out of the discussion.  He took his troops with
him and vowed to never post again to V2020.
    I thought that was cowardly and foolish.  But it was his choice.  And
now you are attacking V2020 because Wilson is not posting here?
    The V2020 discussion continued.  I think it continues because it fills a
need, for community updates (did you want to know about the radio
celebration for Peter Basoa on Thursday?  that was just posted on V2020),
for contact (did you consider adopting that fat black cat that was passed
around until was taken home?  all that community interaction came through
V2020 posts), for opinion (several subscribers regualarly post their own
ideas, editorials and cartoons).

    I assume that your comments about FSR and their support for V2020 are
designed to end that support and thus end V2020.  Of course, FSR is making a
business decision in their support for V2020.  FSR is allocating resources
to maintain V2020.  FSR also sponsors Christmas movies at Eastside
Marketplace and evenings at the Kenworthy.  In all those cases, FSR has made
a commitment to support what they consider the best interests of this
community.  I applaud them for that choice.  I have not seen any other
Internet provider offer such generous support to this community.

BL

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "L.Z. Jones" <canorder at moscow.com>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 9:12 AM
Subject: [Vision2020] V2020 Problems

> Mr. London,
> Isn't it more accurate and honest to say that First Step's customers
> subsidize V2020? No Customers - No First Step - No Vision 2020.
>
> I'm wondering if there is a real community need for V2020. In 2004, over
> 67% of the "contributions" were submitted by 15 people. Of those emails,
> 17% came from Tom Hansen and 10% from Wayne Fox. Between the two of them
> they submitted over 1,660 emails to V2020 in 2004 - and that doesn't
> include December posts. If you have MSExcel and less than 30 minutes you
> can cut, paste, and sort the emails and see the stats for yourself. Less
> time than it takes to delete the daily, irrelevant ramblings.
>
> You may believe V2020 is unmoderated. I disagree. It looks to me like
> Hansen and Fox are the moderators. With their band of merry friends
> they've managed to silence a community of people and take what was once
> a tool and turn it into nothing more than a weapon. Isn't it obvious why
> the majority of subscribers silently lurk? They sort out the few posts
> beneficial to the community - delete the rest - and avoid the "tolerant
> and inclusive" commentary served up at V2020.
>
> First Step has continued to subsidize V2020 despite injury to their
> paying customers. That's a business choice. First Step is fully aware of
> what's being said on V2020 and they've willingly overlooked it. It's the
> height of irony and foolishness to imagine that First Step is immune to
> V2020's poison.
>
> Lucy Jones
> Canon Press  <--- A First Step customer
>
>
>
> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:30:30 -0800
> From: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] V2020 Problems
>
> Have you ever noticed that everyone whines and complains about their
> Internet provider, no matter what company they choose?  Too slow, too
> many ads, not enough space, etc etc And while I don't want to inhibit
> anyone's heartfelt complaints, I would like to remind everyone that
> without FSR there is no Vision2020. Simple equation... No FSR equals No
> V2020. FSR donates the service and maintenance that keeps V2020 a free,
> unmoderated list.  FSR deserves our gratitude. I use FSR.  I am happy
> with their service.  I assume others are not. But it is the height of
> irony to use V2020 to attack FSR. BL
>
> _____________________________________________________
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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_____________________________________________________
 List services made available by First Step Internet, 
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
               http://www.fsr.net                       
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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