[Vision2020] My Testimony
Douglas Stambler
ccm_moscow@yahoo.com
Sun, 3 Aug 2003 16:45:22 -0700 (PDT)
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Ralph:
I offer you my testimony.
I was molested and beaten as a child, and my mother raped me until about the age of twelve. I had a lot of problems getting along with people, and it was only when I came to Christ, that I felt the burden of these things really go away. Christ is not an imaginary companion. Christ works through our souls, and offers us protection in this very difficult world we live in.
That's my testimony for you.
I OPEN THIS UP TO ALL CHRISTIANS ON THIS FORUM TO COME FORTH WITH YOUR TESTIMONIES ABOUT WHAT JESUS HAS DONE IN YOUR LIFE. PERHAPS I'M NOT THE PERSON TO START THIS ON THE FORUM, AND PERHAPS THERE ARE THOSE WHO THINK THAT THIS IS INAPPROPRIATE ON THE VISION2020 FORUM. BUT HERE WE ARE: WHAT'S MORE HELPFUL TO OTHERS THAN TO GIVE YOUR TESTIMONY ABOUT WHAT CHRIST HAS DONE FOR YOU?
PLEASE, RALPH IS I THINK A PERSON WHO REALLY NEEDS TO HEAR FROM CHRISTIANS THE MIRACULOUS CHANGES THAT CHRIST BRINGS TO EVERYONE WHO ASKS FOR CHRIST TO COME INTO THEIR LIFE.
FOR ONCE, IGNORE THE SOURCE OF THIS E-MAIL. BRING YOUR TESTIMONIES ABOUT JESUS CHRIST FORTH ON THIS FORUM.
Thank you,
Douglas Stambler
(Pullman)
*************************************
ote:
>
> From: Douglas Stambler
> Date: Sat Aug 2, 2003 3:07:37 PM US/Pacific
> To: Ralph Nielsen , vision2020@moscow.com
> Subject: [Vision2020] Second coming of Jesus: Response to R. Nielsen
>
>
> Ralph:
>
> Christ is real and alive today! There's no doubt about that. And
> there is nothing that anyone can do to convince you of that, you have
> to try it yourself. Ask Jesus to come into your life today, and you
> will notice that your life improves, and that your burdens will be
> lifted, too. No one knows exactly when Christ will come again, and I
> don't think that you really care about that. I think what you're
> after is for God to show Himself to you.
>
> Again, ask Christ into your life today, and you will feel the
> difference.
>
> In Christ,
> Douglas Stambler
RALPH NIELSEN
I'm talking about the historical Jesus who was supposedly carried up
into the sky and who promised to come down out of the sky again while
some of his contemporaries were still alive. Douglas, you are talking
about an imaginary companion.
>
RALPH NIELSEN (earlier)
> The question of the Second Coming of Jesus becomes a "doctrinal" issue
> only to those who refuse to face the fact that both Paul, the earliest
> writer in the New Testament, and most of the others as well, looked for
> an imminent return of Jesus out of the clouds while nearly all of them
> were still alive. Dale's claim that the Parousia was in two parts, with
> a judgment in the year 70, simply doesn't agree with the book of
> Revelation, for example, where the judgment is yet to come. Most
> scholars agree that Revelation was written around the year 100.
> They also agree that the epistle of 2 Peter was not written by Peter,
> but was a late attempt at damage control when Jesus had not yet shown
> up as predicted. And ever since then, Christians looking for a magical
> solution to all the world's troubles have had to pretend that Jesus,
> Paul, et. al., either did not mean what they said or did not say what
> they meant. Dale is correct that many books have been written over the
> centuries attempting to rationalize this fact.
> RALPH NIELSEN
> >The question of the Second Coming of Jesus becomes a "doctrinal"
> issue only
> >to those who refuse to face the fact that both Paul, the earliest
> writer in
> >the New Testament, and most of the others as well, looked for an
> imminent
> >return of Jesus out of the clouds while nearly all of them were still
> alive.
> >Dale's claim that the Parousia was in two parts, with a judgment in
> the year
> >70, simply doesn't agree with the book of Revelation, for example,
> where the
> >judgment is yet to come. Most scholars agree that Revelation was
> written
> >around the year 100.
> From: "Dale Courtney"
> Nielsen, you still have a lot more homework to do.
>
> First, your "late date" of 100 AD is held by "some" contemporary
> researchers. However, the vast majority of scholars thru history have
> disagreed with you and your 100 AD date. In fact, the vast majority
> have dated Revelation before 70 AD. If you would like, I can provide
> you (off-list) with a 15-page bibliography listing scholars who have
> disagreed with you over the past 2,000 years. Bottom line: all the
> internal and external evidence points to an early date (prior to 70
> AD). The reason for pushing the date to later isn't for scholarly
> purposes but to support a different agenda.
>
> Second, you need to study up more on Hebrew apocalyptic literature and
> see what it means to come in the clouds. Understanding apocalyptic
> genre is not like reading a Harry Potter book.
>
> Third, there is a significant difference between a coming in judgment
> and a physical coming. That distinction shouldn't be lost on you.
> Again, I refer you to the apocalyptic writings of the Hebrew Prophets
> where they speak of judgment comings.
>
> Finally, if you are *really* interested in knowing, contact me
> off-list -- vision2020 is not a forum for theological debates. Since
> you haven't done so, I'm assuming that you don't *really* care to
> know, and that your agenda lies elsewhere.
RALPH NIELSEN
Recent scholars generally agree that Revelation was written around the
year 95 (Adela Yarbro Collins, David E. Aune (both of whom I have
personally contacted) and others). But whenever it was written there is
no doubt that Jesus, Paul, and many early Christians believed that what
we call the first century was supposed to have been the last century.
But nothing happened, the prophecies failed, just as similar
prophecies, held by the Millerites, Latter-day Saints, and Jehovah's
Witnesses have also failed. I prophesy that Jesus will not come again
in your time or mine either. No matter how many Left Behind books or
Late Great Planet Earth books are written, he will not show up.
Incidentally, Dale, a recent study concludes that frequent
masturbation by young men in their twenties helps to prevent prostate
problems in their later years.
---------------------------------
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<DIV>Ralph:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I offer you my testimony.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I was molested and beaten as a child, and my mother raped me until about the age of twelve. I had a lot of problems getting along with people, and it was only when I came to Christ, that I felt the burden of these things really go away. Christ is not an imaginary companion. Christ works through our souls, and offers us protection in this very difficult world we live in.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>That's my testimony for you.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4>I OPEN THIS UP TO ALL CHRISTIANS ON THIS FORUM TO COME FORTH WITH YOUR TESTIMONIES ABOUT WHAT JESUS HAS DONE IN YOUR LIFE. PERHAPS I'M NOT THE PERSON TO START THIS ON THE FORUM, AND PERHAPS THERE ARE THOSE WHO THINK THAT THIS IS INAPPROPRIATE ON THE VISION2020 FORUM. BUT HERE WE ARE: WHAT'S MORE HELPFUL TO OTHERS THAN TO GIVE YOUR TESTIMONY ABOUT WHAT CHRIST HAS DONE FOR YOU?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4>PLEASE, RALPH IS I THINK A PERSON WHO REALLY NEEDS TO HEAR FROM CHRISTIANS THE MIRACULOUS CHANGES THAT CHRIST BRINGS TO EVERYONE WHO ASKS FOR CHRIST TO COME INTO THEIR LIFE.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4>FOR ONCE, IGNORE THE SOURCE OF THIS E-MAIL. BRING YOUR TESTIMONIES ABOUT JESUS CHRIST FORTH ON THIS FORUM.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV>Thank you,</DIV>
<DIV>Douglas Stambler</DIV>
<DIV>(Pullman)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>*************************************<BR><B><I></I></B>ote:</DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid; WIDTH: 100%">><BR>> From: Douglas Stambler <CCM_MOSCOW@YAHOO.COM><BR>> Date: Sat Aug 2, 2003 3:07:37 PM US/Pacific<BR>> To: Ralph Nielsen <NIELSEN@UIDAHO.EDU>, vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> Subject: [Vision2020] Second coming of Jesus: Response to R. Nielsen<BR>><BR>><BR>> Ralph:<BR>> <BR>> Christ is real and alive today! There's no doubt about that. And <BR>> there is nothing that anyone can do to convince you of that, you have <BR>> to try it yourself. Ask Jesus to come into your life today, and you <BR>> will notice that your life improves, and that your burdens will be <BR>> lifted, too. No one knows exactly when Christ will come again, and I <BR>> don't think that you really care about that. I think what you're <BR>> after is for God to show Himself to you.<BR>> <BR>> Again, ask Christ into y!
our life
today, and you will feel the <BR>> difference.<BR>> <BR>> In Christ,<BR>> Douglas Stambler<BR><BR>RALPH NIELSEN<BR>I'm talking about the historical Jesus who was supposedly carried up <BR>into the sky and who promised to come down out of the sky again while <BR>some of his contemporaries were still alive. Douglas, you are talking <BR>about an imaginary companion.<BR><BR>><BR>RALPH NIELSEN (earlier)<BR>> The question of the Second Coming of Jesus becomes a "doctrinal" issue<BR>> only to those who refuse to face the fact that both Paul, the earliest<BR>> writer in the New Testament, and most of the others as well, looked for<BR>> an imminent return of Jesus out of the clouds while nearly all of them<BR>> were still alive. Dale's claim that the Parousia was in two parts, with<BR>> a judgment in the year 70, simply doesn't agree with the book of<BR>> Revelation, for example, where the judgment is yet to come. Most<BR>> scholars agree!
that
Revelation was written around the year 100.<BR>> They also agree that the epistle of 2 Peter was not written by Peter,<BR>> but was a late attempt at damage control when Jesus had not yet shown<BR>> up as predicted. And ever since then, Christians looking for a magical<BR>> solution to all the world's troubles have had to pretend that Jesus,<BR>> Paul, et. al., either did not mean what they said or did not say what<BR>> they meant. Dale is correct that many books have been written over the<BR>> centuries attempting to rationalize this fact.<BR><BR>> RALPH NIELSEN <BR>> >The question of the Second Coming of Jesus becomes a "doctrinal" <BR>> issue only<BR>> >to those who refuse to face the fact that both Paul, the earliest <BR>> writer in<BR>> >the New Testament, and most of the others as well, looked for an <BR>> imminent<BR>> >return of Jesus out of the clouds while nearly all of them were still <BR>> alive.<B!
R>>
>Dale's claim that the Parousia was in two parts, with a judgment in <BR>> the year<BR>> >70, simply doesn't agree with the book of Revelation, for example, <BR>> where the<BR>> >judgment is yet to come. Most scholars agree that Revelation was <BR>> written<BR>> >around the year 100.<BR><BR>> From: "Dale Courtney" <DALE@COURTNEYS.US><BR>> Nielsen, you still have a lot more homework to do.<BR>> <BR>> First, your "late date" of 100 AD is held by "some" contemporary <BR>> researchers. However, the vast majority of scholars thru history have <BR>> disagreed with you and your 100 AD date. In fact, the vast majority <BR>> have dated Revelation before 70 AD. If you would like, I can provide <BR>> you (off-list) with a 15-page bibliography listing scholars who have <BR>> disagreed with you over the past 2,000 years. Bottom line: all the <BR>> internal and external evidence points to an early date (prior to 70 <BR>>!
; AD).
The reason for pushing the date to later isn't for scholarly <BR>> purposes but to support a different agenda.<BR>> <BR>> Second, you need to study up more on Hebrew apocalyptic literature and <BR>> see what it means to come in the clouds. Understanding apocalyptic <BR>> genre is not like reading a Harry Potter book.<BR>> <BR>> Third, there is a significant difference between a coming in judgment <BR>> and a physical coming. That distinction shouldn't be lost on you. <BR>> Again, I refer you to the apocalyptic writings of the Hebrew Prophets <BR>> where they speak of judgment comings.<BR>> <BR>> Finally, if you are *really* interested in knowing, contact me <BR>> off-list -- vision2020 is not a forum for theological debates. Since <BR>> you haven't done so, I'm assuming that you don't *really* care to <BR>> know, and that your agenda lies elsewhere.<BR><BR>RALPH NIELSEN<BR>Recent scholars generally agree th!
at
Revelation was written around the <BR>year 95 (Adela Yarbro Collins, David E. Aune (both of whom I have <BR>personally contacted) and others). But whenever it was written there is <BR>no doubt that Jesus, Paul, and many early Christians believed that what <BR>we call the first century was supposed to have been the last century. <BR>But nothing happened, the prophecies failed, just as similar <BR>prophecies, held by the Millerites, Latter-day Saints, and Jehovah's <BR>Witnesses have also failed. I prophesy that Jesus will not come again <BR>in your time or mine either. No matter how many Left Behind books or <BR>Late Great Planet Earth books are written, he will not show up.<BR>Incidentally, Dale, a recent study concludes that frequent <BR>masturbation by young men in their twenties helps to prevent prostate <BR>problems in their later years.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><p><hr SIZE=1>
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