[Vision2020] What if . . .

Tue Mar 24 21:37:55 PDT 2020

Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
--------------------------------------
Thanks for the correction to the article
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/if-trump-declares-martial-law-due-to-coronavirus-can-he-suspend-the-election/

where the writer, as once did Rand Paul, asserted that Thomas Jefferson
stated "“A government big enough to give you everything you want is big
enough to take away everything you have.”
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/rand-paul-and-founders-ramesh-ponnuru/

"... Sen. Rand Paul is a serial offender when it comes to repeating fake
quotes from the Founders. Thomas Jefferson, for example, never wrote that a
“government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to
take away everything you have,”

The false attribution of this quote to Thomas Jefferson is all over the
place!
And the list of "quotes" putting words into Jefferson's mouth goes on and
on,,. He's turning over in his grave!
https://www.businessinsider.com/thomas-jefferson-quotes-that-were-actually-just-made-up-2013-9

19 Famous Thomas Jefferson 'Quotes' That He Actually Never Said At All

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 7:16 PM Ron Force <ronforce at gmail.com> wrote:

Just to set the record straight, Thomas Jefferson didn't say the quote
> attributed to him:
>
> https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/jun/06/facebook-posts/no-thomas-jefferson-did-not-say-big-government-str/
>
>
> A researcher did locate the origin of the quote about big government:
> This is usually attributed to Gerald Ford, but researcher *Barry Popik* has
> found it earlier, in *Paul Harvey*‘s 1952 book *Remember These Things*.
>
> https://freakonomics.com/2009/10/01/quotes-uncovered-big-government-and-peculiarities/
>
> And that's the rest of the story...
>
> Ron Force
> Moscow Idaho USA
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 9:06 PM Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
>> ------------------------------------
>> MAR 19, 2020
>>
>> https://www.truthdig.com/articles/if-trump-declares-martial-law-due-to-coronavirus-can-he-suspend-the-election/
>>
>> If Trump Declares Martial Law Due to Coronavirus, Can He Suspend the
>> Election?
>> Excerpt from article:
>>
>> If our self-proclaimed “wartime president” were to declare martial law to
>> fight the pandemic, would he have the authority to suspend the election in
>> November? Josh Douglas, an election law scholar at the University of
>> Kentucky Law School, doesn’t believe so. “Even [martial law] would likely
>> not give him power to postpone election or delay end of his term on Jan.
>> 20, 2021,” he tweeted
>> <https://twitter.com/JoshuaADouglas/status/1238875671386034176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1238875671386034176&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Ftrump-cant-cancel-or-postpone-the-november-election-over-coronavirus-2020-3>.
>> “As Supreme Court said in ex parte Milligan (1866), martial law does not
>> suspend the Constitution.”
>>
>> But Ian Millhiser, a senior correspondent at Vox, where he covers Supreme
>> Court issues, points out that the courts usually defer to national security
>> decisions made by presidents, citing the Supreme Court’s decision to uphold
>> Japanese-American detention camps during World War II and, more recently,
>> President Trump’s Muslim travel ban. “American election law was not written
>> with a pandemic in mind,” he writes
>> <https://www.vox.com/2020/3/18/21183492/election-coronavirus-ohio-pandemic-supreme-court-speweik>.
>> “Extraordinary measures may be necessary to control the spread of
>> coronavirus for many months — possibly continuing well into the November
>> election season. And if those extraordinary measures do disrupt the general
>> elections, courts are likely to defer to public health officials even if
>> those officials act with partisan motivation.”
>>
>> John W. Whitehead, founder and president of the Rutherford Institute, a
>> nonprofit civil liberties organization based in Charlottesville, Virginia,
>> views the coronavirus pandemic not as a test of our ability to come
>> together as a nation in a time of crisis, but rather as “a test to see
>> whether the Constitution—and our commitment to the principles enshrined in
>> the Bill of Rights—can survive a national crisis and a true state of
>> emergency
>> <https://www.globalresearch.ca/how-constitution-fare-during-nationwide-lockdown/5706172>
>> .”
>>
>> Today in America, we find ourselves caught in the crosshairs of two
>> powerful, unpredictable and dangerous forces—Trumpism and coronavirus. The
>> stock market has lost all its gains since Trump took office
>> <https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-bump-flattened-post-inauguration-163524922.html>,
>> a 20 percent unemployment rate
>> <https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/17/politics/steven-mnuchin-unemployment-warning-coronavirus/index.html> is
>> in the offing, and Americans are dying
>> <https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/>. Will we pass
>> this test? Will the Constitution survive?
>>
>> New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, a Democrat, agrees with the wartime
>> footing that Trump has initiated. “This is a war, we have to treat it like
>> a war,” Cuomo said
>> <https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-cuomo-respirator-20200319-xuimmmxatjcnpnvhvntqkp6mle-story.html>.
>> “In a war, you need the federal government.” Sure, states need help from
>> Washington to deal with the pandemic, from the health crisis itself to the
>> economic crisis it has spawned. But before tanks start rumbling down New
>> York’s Fifth Avenue and the Army Corps of Engineers cordons off
>> neighborhoods with bollards and barbed wire, Cuomo might consider the
>> warning of one of Trump’s more eloquent and sagacious predecessors, Thomas
>> Jefferson: “A government big enough to give you everything you want is big
>> enough to take away everything you have.”
>> On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 1:13 PM Ron Force <ronforce at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Here's a recent discussion from the blog* Marginal Revolution:*
>>>
>>>
>>> Will the November 2020 elections be postponed? It's not impossible, as
>>> the law for Nov elections only dates to the 1790s and is a law passed by
>>> Congress, it's not in the US constitution. Stay tuned...
>>>
>>> Me and mine are fine, in GR and PH at the moment and in self-sufficient
>>> farms (both of us). 1% always survive.
>>> JeremyMarch 16, 2020 at 11:13 am  Hide Replies
>>> <https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/03/a-report-from-the-hospital-front-from-a-reliable-source.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+marginalrevolution%2Ffeed+%28Marginal+Revolution%29#>
>>> 3
>>> <https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/03/a-report-from-the-hospital-front-from-a-reliable-source.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+marginalrevolution%2Ffeed+%28Marginal+Revolution%29#blog-comment-160049781>
>>>
>>> The U.S. Constitution makes it very clear: on January 20th, at noon, if
>>> there hasn't been an election and nobody has voted, Nancy Pelosi becomes
>>> President of the United States.
>>> IgnacioMarch 16, 2020 at 11:57 am  Hide Replies
>>> <https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/03/a-report-from-the-hospital-front-from-a-reliable-source.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+marginalrevolution%2Ffeed+%28Marginal+Revolution%29#>
>>> 4
>>> <https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/03/a-report-from-the-hospital-front-from-a-reliable-source.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+marginalrevolution%2Ffeed+%28Marginal+Revolution%29#blog-comment-160049814>
>>>
>>> But, if there had been no elections, Nancy's term will also have
>>> expired. Then, wouldn't the president be the President pro tempore of the
>>> Senate?
>>> Bob from OhioMarch 16, 2020 at 2:15 pm  Hide Replies
>>> <https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/03/a-report-from-the-hospital-front-from-a-reliable-source.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+marginalrevolution%2Ffeed+%28Marginal+Revolution%29#>
>>> 5
>>> <https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/03/a-report-from-the-hospital-front-from-a-reliable-source.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+marginalrevolution%2Ffeed+%28Marginal+Revolution%29#blog-comment-160049930>
>>>
>>> Yes, and since a majority of the 2020 senate class is GOP, the Dems will
>>> elect the pro tem so it will be Leahy.
>>> John MMarch 16, 2020 at 2:59 pm  Hide Replies
>>> <https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/03/a-report-from-the-hospital-front-from-a-reliable-source.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+marginalrevolution%2Ffeed+%28Marginal+Revolution%29#>
>>> 6
>>> <https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/03/a-report-from-the-hospital-front-from-a-reliable-source.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+marginalrevolution%2Ffeed+%28Marginal+Revolution%29#blog-comment-160049968>
>>>
>>> Not necessarily. The Presidential Succession Act doesn't have primacy
>>> here; the 12th and 20th Amendments do. On January 6, when Congress convenes
>>> to count the electoral votes, if there is no candidate that receives 270
>>> votes then the House of Representatives chooses a President with one vote
>>> cast by each state delegation. The Constitution specifies that a quorum
>>> requires at least one Member from two-thirds of the states, and votes from
>>> a majority of the states to be elected.
>>>
>>> Now, what happens if there *is* no House of Representatives because
>>> every single one's term expired is an interesting question, or if the House
>>> can't seat members from at least 34 states on January 3 when the new
>>> Congress begins. That's the point at which I would assume the Presidential
>>> Succession Act takes hold, and we start talking about President Leahy or
>>> President Grassley.
>>>
>>> This also assumes, of course, that states don't take some alternate
>>> route to select Presidential electors. There's no Constitutional
>>> requirement that they do so via public vote; the Constitution only says
>>> that "Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof
>>> may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and
>>> Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress" so in
>>> theory state legislatures could bypass popular elections and simply select
>>> electors by gubernatorial fiat, by legislative vote, by wet t-shirt
>>> contest, etc. This doesn't solve the issue of seating a House of
>>> Representatives -- which *does* have to be selected by popular vote -- but
>>> it's at least theoretically an option.
>>> Ron Force
>>> Moscow Idaho USA
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 12:47 PM Nicholas Gier <ngier006 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>
>>> My understanding is that the states run the elections, and they would
>>>> decide to postpone or cancel.
>>>> nfg
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 12:42 PM Kenneth Marcy <kmmos1 at frontier.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/20 6:39 AM, Tom Hansen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>> > . . . Trump suspends the November presidential election due to
>>>>> > national emergency?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Could . . . Would . . . this happen?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > (jus’ curious)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not constitutionally.  There are time limits on one person's service
>>>>> as
>>>>> president, and the separation of powers to the states for setting
>>>>> dates
>>>>> for elections of senators, representatives, and to the electoral
>>>>> college
>>>>> to achieve election results in time for winners to begin their new
>>>>> terms
>>>>> at the constitutionally mandated dates. This means that no president
>>>>> may
>>>>> extend terms of office beyond the two now allowed without
>>>>> constitutional
>>>>> amendments approved by three-quarters of the states.
>>>>>
>>>>> Despite the fact that Vladimir Putin is now allowed to rule Russia
>>>>> until
>>>>> 2036, Donald Trump is allowed to be president of the United States of
>>>>> America until noon on January 20, 2021, unless individual and
>>>>> electoral
>>>>> college voters allow him a second term, which would end, according to
>>>>> the current U.S. constitution, January 20, 2025.
>>>>>
>>>>> If Trump wanted to cancel elections for president and vice president,
>>>>> the House of Representatives would choose a president, and the Senate
>>>>> would choose a vice-president to serve until the next set of elections
>>>>> to be held to choose officers and electors to meet the next
>>>>> constitutionally-mandated set of terms of office.  Trump's fantasies
>>>>> about following Chinese and Russian leaders into an American
>>>>> presidency
>>>>> for life are just that -- fantasies.  Yes, one might fantasize a
>>>>> dystopia with appropriate constitutional amendments in place, but I
>>>>> doubt even horror writers such as Stephen King would attempt such a
>>>>> fiction.  Not only are horror writers unlikely to write such fiction,
>>>>> voters are even more unlikely to approve such constitutional
>>>>> amendments.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know
>>>> they shall never sit in.
>>>>
>>>> -Greek proverb
>>>>
>>>> “Enlightenment is man’s emergence from his self-imposed immaturity.
>>>> Immaturity is the inability to use one’s understanding without guidance
>>>> from another. This immaturity is self- imposed when its cause lies not in
>>>> lack of understanding, but in lack of resolve and courage to use it without
>>>> guidance from another. Sapere Aude! ‘Have courage to use your own
>>>> understand-ing!—that is the motto of enlightenment.
>>>>
>>>> --Immanuel Kant
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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