[Vision2020] Guns on campus

Fri May 23 12:40:10 PDT 2014

Only if they are men.  Kirker men love their guns.  

Rose

PS  I'm not sure what kind of "higher learning" is taking place at NSA given
their perspective on human rights for all (including women and GLBT people),
the Confederacy, global warming, arranged marriages for pedophiles, a deep,
insatiable longing for theocratic government (in place of democracy), and a
firm belief in a younger than 10,000 year old earth shared jointly by
dinosaurs and people.  Based on the preceding issues, I find NSA much less
an institution of higher learning and more like a trip to the Magic Kingdom.

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of rhayes at frontier.com
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 12:04 PM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Guns on campus

I have a question. Where does the "other" Moscow institution of higher
learning (New Saint Andrews)  stand on guns on their campus? Are they just
peachy about their students bringing their "toys" to class?

  _____  

From: "vision2020-request at moscow.com" <vision2020-request at moscow.com>
To: vision2020 at moscow.com 
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 11:52 AM
Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 95, Issue 160

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: After losing in Legislature,    Idaho college campuses
      adapting policies to new gun law (Saundra Lund)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 11:52:05 -0700
From: "Saundra Lund" <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
To: "'Tom Hansen'" <thansen at moscow.com>
Cc: 'Moscow Vision 2020' <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] After losing in Legislature,    Idaho college
    campuses adapting policies to new gun law
Message-ID: <26ad01cf76b8$1851fc80$48f5f580$@ssl1.fastmail.fm>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Tom, I suggest not wasting your time on little Tucker because critical
thinking clearly isn?t ?his? strong suit as evidenced by this phone meme he
posted back in October ? he clearly belongs in the group that thinks being a
rank liar is good for America.  Too bad for him the military wouldn?t want
him:

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Tucker Goodwin
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 4:47 PM
To: Moscow Vision 2020
Subject: [Vision2020] Freedom is not free

FREEDOM IS NOT FREE........

Since we are not going to get gasoline back to $1.50 per gallon and coffee
to $2.00 per pound maybe this would be a solution we could live with. 

DIVORCE AGREEMENT -- This is so incredibly well-put, and I can hardly
believe it's by a young person, a student!! Whatever he runs for, I'll vote
for him!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Dear American liberals, leftists, social progressives, socialists,
regressive, Marxists, and Obama supporters, et. al.: 

We have stuck together since the late 1950s for the sake of the kids, but
the whole of this latest election process has made me realize that I want a
divorce. I know we tolerated each other for many years for the sake of
future generations, but sadly, this relationship has clearly run its course.

Our two ideological sides of America cannot and will not ever agree on what
is right for us all, so let's just end it on friendly terms. We can smile
and chalk it up to irreconcilable differences and go our own way. 

Here is a model separation agreement: 

1. Our two groups can equitably divide up the country by land mass, each
taking a similar portion. That will be the difficult part, but I am sure our
two sides can come to a friendly agreement. After that, it should be
relatively easy. Our respective representatives can effortlessly divide
other assets since both sides had such distinct and disparate tastes. 

2. We don't like redistributive taxes, so you can keep them. 

3. You are welcome to the liberal judges and the ACLU. 

4. Since you hate guns and war, we'll take our firearms, the cops, the NRA,
and the military. 

5. We'll take the nasty, smelly oil industry and you can go with wind,
solar, and bio-diesel. 

6. You can keep Oprah, Michael Moore, and Rosie O'Donnell. You are, however,
responsible for finding a bio-diesel vehicle big enough to move all three of
them. 

7. We'll keep capitalism, greedy corporations, pharmaceutical companies,
Wal-Mart, and Wall Street. 

8. You can have your beloved lifelong welfare dwellers, food stamps,
homeless homeboys, hippies, druggies, and illegal aliens. 

9. We'll keep the hot Alaskan hockey moms, greedy CEO's and rednecks. 

10. We'll keep the Bibles and give you NBC and Hollywood . 

11. You can make nice with Iran and Palestine and we'll retain the right to
invade and hammer places that threaten us. 

12. You can have the peace-niks and war protesters. When our allies or our
way of life are under assault, we'll help provide them security.

13. We'll keep our Judeo-Christian values. 

14. You are welcome to Islam, Scientology, Humanism, political correctness,
and Shirley McLain. You can also have the U.N., but we will no longer be
paying the bill. 

15. We'll keep the SUV's, pickup trucks, and oversized luxury cars. You can
take every Subaru station wagon you can find. 

16. You can give everyone healthcare if you can find any practicing
doctors.. 

17. We'll continue to believe healthcare is an earned luxury and not a
right. 

18. We'll keep "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" and "The National Anthem." 

19. I'm sure you'll be happy to substitute "Imagine", "I'd Like to Teach the
World to Sing", "Kum Ba Ya," or "We Are the World". 

20. We'll practice trickledown economics and you can continue to give
trickle up poverty your best shot. 

21. Since it often so offends you, we'll keep our history, our name and our
constitution and our flag. 

22. Would you agree to this? If so, please pass it along to other
like-minded liberal and conservative patriots and if you do not agree, just
hit delete. In the spirit of friendly parting, I'll bet you answer which one
of us will need whose help in 15 years. 

Sincerely, 

John J. Wall 

Law Student and an American 

P.S.: Also, please take Ted Turner, Sean Penn, Martin Sheen, Barbara
Streisand, and Jane Fonda with you. 

P.S.S..: And you won't have to "Press 1 for English" when you call our
country. 

Forward this every time you get it! Let's keep this going; maybe some of it
will start sinking in! 

**If you can't stand behind our Military, Please feel free to stand in front
of them! **

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Tom Hansen
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 11:43 AM
To: Tucker Goodwin
Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] After losing in Legislature, Idaho college
campuses adapting policies to new gun law

So . . .

Allowing guns on campus will solve this problem? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 

That's like saying that lowering the drinking age will reduce drunk driving.

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)

<http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com
<http://www.moscowcares.com/> 

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still.

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,

If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

On May 23, 2014, at 11:30 AM, Tucker Goodwin <tuckman8822 at yahoo.com
<mailto:tuckman8822 at yahoo.com> > wrote:

Yes, Mr. Hansen I can wait.

I agree with you that there is more opportunity for things to happen.
However, no matter what the law is your always going to have bad people
doing bad things. So, why do the good people of Moscow have to suffer
because of a small group of not so good people of Moscow?

On Friday, May 23, 2014 11:21 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com
<mailto:thansen at moscow.com> > wrote:

For one thing, Mr. Goodwin . . .

Campus security would find it easier to identify the bad guys.  They would
be the ones WITH THE GUNS.

Another thing . . .

As weapons are allowed on campus, but not allowed in dorms (billeting
quarters owned and maintained by the university), those students living in
fraternities and sororitues will find it easier to carry weapons to and from
campus, as sororities and fraternities are privately owned.

This, also, could open a whole new "bag of worms" in town.  Students
residing off-campus will also find it easier to carry weapons to and from
their off-campus residence to and from campus.  

As I said before . . . kinda adds a whole new dimension to Rush Week, huh?
And how 'bout them jello-shot and other drinking competitions at the
Champions tavern.  I can hardly wait for their new year's party.  Can you?

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)

<http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com
<http://www.moscowcares.com/> 

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still.

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,

If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

On May 23, 2014, at 10:56 AM, Tucker Goodwin <tuckman8822 at yahoo.com
<mailto:tuckman8822 at yahoo.com> > wrote:

Well Mr. Hansen, person that is a good citizen and abides by the law will
more then likely fallow the rules and laws that are in place. Here is a
question for you, if the law was the other way and you could not have a hand
gun on campus, what is going to stop the person from coming on campus to
commit suicide and kill people. NOTHING!!!!!! 

On Friday, May 23, 2014 9:06 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com
<mailto:thansen at moscow.com> > wrote:

Mr. Rumelhart -

I don't dance.  I suggest you find another partner.

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)

<http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com
<http://www.moscowcares.com/> 

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still.

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,

If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

On May 23, 2014, at 8:46 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com
<mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com> > wrote:

Um... no?  

I thought I was suggesting that the militarization of campus security was
not the correct direction to take on this issue.

Paul

From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com <mailto:thansen at moscow.com> >
To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com> > 
Cc: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> 
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] After losing in Legislature, Idaho college
campuses adapting policies to new gun law

Are you suggesting, Mr. Rumelhart, that, as the new law goes into affect, it
should be considered acceptable behavior for somebody who expresses a desire
to commit suicide to bring a handgun on campus, conceivably to kill others
before taking his/her own life?

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" 

<http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com
<http://www.moscowcares.com/> 

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still.

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,

If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

On May 23, 2014, at 8:12 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com
<mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com> > wrote:

I believe that's the point I was trying to make.  It can happen now.
Regardless, is the correct response really to militarize campus security?
That seems like an awfully statist approach to me.

Paul

From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com <mailto:thansen at moscow.com> >
To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com> > 
Cc: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> 
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] After losing in Legislature, Idaho college
campuses adapting policies to new gun law

In my opinion, NIC is not "freaking out", since an individual, who was
"talking about dying and not being afraid to die", was recently arrested on
campus with a gun.

http://www.khq.com/story/24685956/man-with-gun-arrested-on-north-idaho-colle
ge-campus

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)

<http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com
<http://www.moscowcares.com/> 

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still.

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,

If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

On May 23, 2014, at 6:54 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com
<mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com> > wrote:

In my personal opinion, the University of Idaho appears to be taking a
rational approach to this while NIC appears to be freaking out about it.
Bullet proof vests?  Really?  Arming their security personnel?  If a few
retired police officers and enhanced concealed carry permit holders frighten
them so much I almost hate to bring up the thought that criminals don't
necessarily follow the gun laws on campuses and that there might be people
with guns on campus RIGHT NOW!  Let's hope that the NIC leadership doesn't
read this.  Tanks are expensive.

Paul

On 05/23/2014 04:24 AM, Tom Hansen wrote:

Courtesy of today's (May 23, 2014) Spokesman-Review.

-----------------------------------

After losing in Legislature, Idaho college campuses adapting policies to new
gun law

Public colleges and universities in Idaho are getting ready to comply with a
new state law they strongly opposed: allowing concealed weapons to be
carried on campus.

The law takes effect July 1 and applies to people with an enhanced license
to carry concealed weapons, along with retired law enforcement officers.
College leaders universally opposed the law, but pro-gun rights lawmakers
pushed it through the Legislature this year.

Now college administrators and campus security departments are preparing for
the new reality: guns in lecture halls, labs, offices, cafeterias ?
everywhere but dormitories and entertainment venues with seating for more
than 1,000, like stadiums and auditoriums.

?We intend to follow the law. Really we don?t discuss the merits of the law.
That was done, the law passed. We?re talking about implementation,? said
Matt Dorschel, executive director of public safety and security at the
University of Idaho in Moscow.

Higher education leaders are revising campus weapons policies to comply with
the new law, although bans on openly carrying guns are expected to remain in
effect.

Some colleges also plan to beef up their security. North Idaho College in
Coeur d?Alene will provide its security officers with bulletproof vests plus
training related to concealed weapon laws, and it may expand its
seven-person security force by one full-time and one part-time position.

NIC also is mulling whether to arm its security workers for the first time,
said Alex Harris, director of student development.

?I don?t know if we?ll go that direction, but it?s definitely out there and
we?re considering it,? Harris said.

Another option, he said, is to work with the Coeur d?Alene Police Department
to station a school resource officer on campus, similar to the officers
present in middle and high schools.

All of these measures are unforeseen expenses at a time of budget cuts due
to falling enrollment, Harris said. NIC?s enrollment this year dropped 11
percent from the previous school year ? a trend that corresponds to the
improving economy.

The vests will cost about $8,000, and arming and training security officers
would cost $10,000 a year. The new security officers, or a school resource
officer, would cost about $60,000 a year.

?The budget process this year, without this, has been difficult for the
campus as a whole,? Harris said. ?It does make for some tough decisions.?

The 12,000-student University of Idaho anticipates no significant changes
for its security force. The Moscow Police Department can respond quickly to
emergencies on campus, and a university task force implementing the new law
is not likely to recommend arming campus security, Dorschel said.

?We don?t think that anything about the law would impact our need to have
other armed responders on campus,? he said.

NIC?s College Senate, which includes faculty, staff and students, approved
new language for the school?s weapons policy last week. The president?s
Cabinet is expected to take the changes to the board of trustees Wednesday,
and the board will vote on the changes by the end of June.

?The policy is the easy part because basically we just have to make sure we
are abiding by the new state law,? Harris said.

The law allows colleges to continue to prohibit guns in dormitories and
public entertainment venues with a seating capacity of at least 1,000. At
NIC, that covers three buildings: the student residence hall, Christianson
Gymnasium and the Schuler Performing Arts Center in Boswell Hall.

It?s not clear yet if the new law also extends to college facilities off
campus. For NIC, that includes its Workforce Training Center in Post Falls
and satellite centers in Sandpoint, Bonners Ferry and Kellogg. NIC is
awaiting a legal opinion on that.

The UI task force is focused on updating the university policy on weapons,
such as identifying which buildings would remain off-limits to guns,
Dorschel said. That includes residence halls for about 2,000 students,
Memorial Gymnasium, the Kibbie Dome and a ballroom in the student union
building.

The task force also is looking at whether to provide more places for
licensed weapons holders to store their guns at times they cannot carry
them. And the group is exploring whether employees may ask someone if they
are carrying a concealed weapon.

?We will make it clear that permit holders are not required to disclose
their status as a concealed carry permit holder to another employee,?
Dorschel said.

Both colleges will distribute answers to common questions about the new law,
such as whether one should alert authorities if they see a gun.

?In general, we don?t want people to hesitate or to assume,? Harris said.
?We?re responsible for the safety of our students and our employees, and if
that requires us having an uncomfortable conversation with someone who has a
permit, then we?ll do it.?

The responsibilities of license holders to keep their weapons concealed, and
whether the law extends to off-campus activities, are other points colleges
will attempt to address.

?We want to make sure we don?t ignore questions that we get from our
community about how this works in practice,? Dorschel said.

People have mixed feelings about guns on campus, Harris said. Some believe
the law will enhance safety because those who are permitted to carry guns
may be able to respond to a threat, while others worry that more armed
responders will only complicate the job of police and security officers.

Also, some employees have told the college they may be more inclined to
request a security officer attend difficult conversations, such as
terminating an employee or talking with a student who is failing a class, he
said.

?I think it?s a matter of taking the temperature once this goes into effect
and we start the fall semester to see what things we need to address and
how,? Harris said.

--------------------

North Idaho College security officer Kelly Hopkins patrols NIC Beach on
Wednesday. The college is equipping its security officers with bulletproof
vests and is considering arming them for the first time ? unforeseen
expenses during falling enrollment and budget cuts.

<mime-attachment.jpg>

-----------------------------------

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)

<http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com
<http://www.moscowcares.com/> 

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still.

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,

If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

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