[Vision2020] And now Kansas . . .
Tom Hansen
thansen at moscow.com
Fri Feb 14 18:31:23 PST 2014
My concern regarding definitions of "religion" and "religious convictions" is to prevent retailers and/or service providers from copping an easy plea.
If these definitions are widely generic in application, what's to prevent the Klan, Aryan Nations, or some other racist group from refusing anyone that is not one of "them"?
As Barry McGuire so aptly reflected, "Hate your next door neighbor, but don't forget to say Grace."
Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
http://www.MoscowCares.com
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still.
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon
> On Feb 14, 2014, at 6:15 PM, "deb" <debismith at moscow.com> wrote:
>
> Approximately 408,000 Wiccans in the US (those who are "out of the broom closet"). This is not a "cult". It is a "movement". Enough membership to bring it to court? Think so....And we have done it before with less membership in VERY red states!!....
> Debi R-S
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tom Hansen
> To: deb
> Cc: Sue Hovey ; Sunil ; vision 2020
> Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 5:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And now Kansas . . .
>
> A couple questions regarding "religious convictions" . . .
>
> What is the legally recognized (and enforceable) definition of "a religion"?
>
> What is the legally recognized (and enforceable) definition of "a religious conviction"?
>
> I have heard it said that the only difference between a cult and a religion is the size of the membership.
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>
> - John Lennon
>
>
>> On Feb 14, 2014, at 5:44 PM, "deb" <debismith at moscow.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm a Wiccan with sincere religious beliefs. Can I refuse to sell vegetables to right wing Xtians who want to burn me? And why would I? I don't give a flying damn about their religion: they want veg, I want their money. Not a problem....
>>
>> However, if I need my rototiller fixed, can the guy who's the "fix-it" refuse because I'm a Witch? Who gets to decide if his beliefs are sincere or just a right wing political reaction to my known political lefty leanings? Big time trouble with this one, again causing the tax payers in Idaho a ton of money in court costs while the poorest residents of our state still can't get medical services.....I love Idaho, but our politicians (note I didn't even hint at "statesmen/women") need a wake-up call about the realities of our state. Those 70somethings with "fear of the different" are dying off, and new/younger voters are beginning to feel the pain.
>>
>> Good thing for those right wingers they put education in the toilet in Idaho. A stupid public is easily influenced----"a chicken in every pot? Sure, and we will make sure the gays/liberals/muslims/feds don't take it away from you! You need a hospital? Hush up! Just die, 'cause there's always more of you uneducated fools to vote for us....."
>>
>> My nasty rant for the month. Done. Don't bother to reply. I'm preaching to the choir, and other than that I know I'm trying to teach the pig to sing: annoying the pig and wasting my time.
>> Debi R-S
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Sue Hovey
>> To: Sunil ; vision 2020
>> Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 1:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And now Kansas . . .
>>
>> I’m sure ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Council) wrote them. One thing that ticks me off is our tax money goes to pay the Idaho memberships in ALEC. A number of Idaho legislators have been on their governing board.
>>
>> Isn’t it interesting that the legislators are giving persons with “sincere religious convictions” license to be practicing bigots. What if I am Muslim and believe in Sharia law? Am I also free to claim “sincere religious convictions” and discriminate against women in public?
>>
>> Additionally, if my doctor has given me a prescription, why should a pharmacist be given legal permission to refuse to fill it?
>>
>> When I was teaching, I had a couple of students who claimed to be witches....should I have had them killed before or after school?(Exodus 22:18)
>>
>>
>>
>> Sue
>>
>> From: Sunil
>> Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 3:52 AM
>> To: vision 2020
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And now Kansas . . .
>>
>> Roger,
>>
>> Let's turn what you're saying on its head: How about, if someone doesn't want to serve the public, he or she doesn't become a pharmacist? How about that person goes and digs ditches instead?
>>
>> It would be interesting to see the bills and how similar they are. Which organization is drafting them? Or did people in different states happen to come up with the same bigoted, boneheaded idea at the same time?
>>
>> Sunil
>>
>> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 17:13:11 -0800
>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com; thansen at moscow.com
>> From: lfalen at turbonet.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And now Kansas . . .
>>
>> I have mixed feelings about theses bills. EMT's and Emergency Room Personell should provide service to everyone no matter who they are. Like wise any government agency should provide service to everyone. A Pharmacist dispensing pills is another mater. A person could simpley go to another pharmacy. Likewise for the people who wanted a wedding cake.
>> As written though I would be against the Idaho, Tennessee and Kansas bills.
>> Roger
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>> To: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Date: 02/13/14 16:14
>> Subject: [Vision2020] And now Kansas . . .
>>
>> Courtesy of Time magazine at:
>>
>> http://nation.time.com/2014/02/11/kansas-bill-allowing-refusal-of-service-to-gay-couples-moves-forward/print/
>>
>> -----------------------------------
>>
>> Kansas Bill Allowing Refusal Of Service to Gay Couples Moves Forward
>>
>> Bill would permit businesses and government employees to deny service on basis of religious principles
>>
>>
>> Kansas lawmakers passed a bill Tuesday that would permit businesses and government employees to deny service to same-sex couples on the basis of their religious principles. The measure passed an initial vote in the house by a significant margin, 72 votes to 42 votes. In a final vote on Wednesday, the bill succeeded 72 votes to 49 votes and will now be considered by the Republican-controlled state senate.
>> State lawmakers engaged in heated debate over House Bill 2453, which would allow hotels, restaurants and stores in the state to refuse to serve gay couples if "it would be contrary to their sincerely held religious beliefs." The bill would also allow government clerks to refuse to sign same-sex marriage licenses without threat of a lawsuit.
>>
>> If a government employee chooses to refuse service, the bill states that the government must attempt to provide another employee to "promptly" provide that service "if it can be done without undue hardship to the employer."
>>
>> This bill is part of a larger trend across the U.S., pitting gay rights advocates against conservatives who say same-sex marriage is contrary to their religious beliefs. A baker in Colorado was ordered to stop discriminating against same-sex couples in December, after refusing to make a cake for a gay couple's wedding.
>>
>> --------------------
>>
>> Kansas House Bill 2453
>>
>> http://kslegislature.org/li/b2013_14/measures/documents/hb2453_00_0000.pdf
>>
>> -----------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>
>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> ======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================
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>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
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>> http://www.fsr.net
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>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
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