[Vision2020] Poachers

Sat Apr 19 13:55:23 PDT 2014

Saundra, read Hansen's question.

My answer was a suggestion of a way to prove the need for someone to subsistence hunt. 

----------------------------------------
> From: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm
> To: fotopro63 at hotmail.com; rhayes at frontier.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Poachers
> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 13:31:22 -0700
>
> Then you should know, Kai, that your suggestion of cutting slack to poachers
> who are receiving unemployment and/or food stamps excludes the most needy
> amongst us.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> On Behalf Of Kai Eiselein
> Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 1:09 PM
> To: rhayes at frontier.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Poachers
>
> I travel all over north central Idaho, including Elk City, Riggins,
> Potlatch, Weippe and Stites distributing food to those in need.
>
> I see the face of hunger every week and I understand why someone would
> poach.
>
> ________________________________
>> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 11:58:43 -0700
>> From: rhayes at frontier.com
>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: [Vision2020] Poachers
>>
>> I have been around in the woods and back country long enough to know
>> why and who shoots at anything moving on four legs. And it usually
>> isn't about putting food on the table.
>> From: "vision2020-request at moscow.com" <vision2020-request at moscow.com>
>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 11:26 AM
>> Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 94, Issue 82
>>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On Game (Tom Hansen)
>> 2. Re: North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On Game (Saundra
>> Lund)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:54:00 -0700
>> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com<mailto:thansen at moscow.com>>
>> To: Kai Eiselein <fotopro63 at hotmail.com<mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com>>
>> Cc: "vision2020 at moscow.com<mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>"
>> <vision2020 at moscow.com<mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On
>> Game
>> Message-ID:
>> <8498DFE5-7909-4D49-9FD8-481324B516B4 at moscow.com<mailto:8498DFE5-7909-
>> 4D49-9FD8-481324B516B4 at moscow.com>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> And if the U.S. Congress terminates a person's food stamps and refuses
>> to extend their unemployment?
>>
>> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>
>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>> http://www.moscowcares.com/
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill, If you want to be
>> like the folks on the hill."
>>
>> - John Lennon
>>
>>
>>> On Apr 19, 2014, at 10:43 AM, Kai Eiselein
>> <fotopro63 at hotmail.com<mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> If someone is getting unemployment and/or food stamps, I'd say
>>> that's
>> a pretty good indication of necessity and would pretty easy to verify.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: thansen at moscow.com<mailto:thansen at moscow.com>
>>>> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:01:50 -0700
>>>> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com<mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>>>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com<mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On
>>>> Game
>>>>
>>>> Then . . .
>>>>
>>>> What about the indigent person who poaches elk/deer for the cash
>>>> value of the racks . . . using the "revenue" to purchase food?
>>>>
>>>> And, if the law is modified such that indigant people can't even be
>>>> charged with the crime of poaching, what is to stop the more
>>>> financially-secure poacher from copping the "I am indigent and only
>>>> sell the elk/deer racks to put food on my family's dinner table" plea?
>>>>
>>>> If the financial stability of the perp is the determing factor in
>>>> whether or not the above cop-out plea may be applied, at what
>>>> amount of financial worth is the line drawn?
>>>>
>>>> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>>>
>>>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>>>> http://www.moscowcares.com/<http://www.moscowcares.com/>
>>>>
>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>
>>>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
>>>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill, If you want to
>>>> be like the folks on the hill."
>>>>
>>>> - John Lennon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 19, 2014, at 9:40 AM, Sunil
>>>>
>> <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com<mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com><mailt
>> o:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com<mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Kai,
>>>>
>>>> I say 'yes,' the person feeding his family should be treated
>>>> differently, and it should start with the law itself. It should
>>>> provide for different treatments, or perhaps create a necessity
>>>> exception that would excuse the first person in your example. Since
>>>> judges will vary widely on the punishment end, to argue mercy
>>>> should be provided there is to live in Dreamland.
>>>>
>>>> Juries generally don't assess punishments, except for the death
>>>> penalty. Their verdicts may create sentencing ranges, depending on
>>>> the charges, or they can acquit.
>>>>
>>>> Tom says, 'Where the "trophy poacher" may be sentenced to some jail
>>>> time and a heavy fine, the indigent person may be sentenced to a
>>>> short term of probation.'
>>>>
>>>> I think the positions are more likely to be reversed in the real world.
>
>>>>
>>>> Sunil
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From:
>> thansen at moscow.com<mailto:thansen at moscow.com><mailto:thansen at moscow.co
>> m<mailto:thansen at moscow.com>>
>>>> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 09:19:49 -0700
>>>> To:
>> fotopro63 at hotmail.com<mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com><mailto:fotopro63 at h
>> otmail.com<mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com>>
>>>> CC:
>> vision2020 at moscow.com<mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com><mailto:vision2020@
>> moscow.com<mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On
>>>> Game
>>>>
>>>> Kai Eiselein suggests:
>>>>
>>>> "Let's say a person is unemployed and needs to feed his/family
>>>> poaches a deer or an elk for food, should that person be treated
>>>> the same as a trophy or money poacher who only takes the rack, hide
>>>> or parts that have cash value?"
>>>>
>>>> As much as I hate to say this, Mr. Eiselein . . .
>>>>
>>>> Yes. A law is only as strong as the people who enforce it.
>>>>
>>>> In both cases, "trophy poachers" (who take the elk/deer racks for
>>>> their cash value) and indigent people (who are striving to put food
>>>> on the dinner table), are guilty of the crime of poaching.
>>>>
>>>> The individual reason for poaching may be presented during the
>>>> judicial process. At which time the judge or jury may impose
>>>> punishment commensurate with the motivation behind committing the
>>>> crime. In military courts-martial, that portion of the judicial
>>>> pricess is referred to as "presentation of matters in extenuation and
> mitigation".
>>>> Where the "trophy poacher" may be sentenced to some jail time and
>>>> a heavy fine, the indigent person may be sentenced to a short term
>>>> of probation.
>>>>
>>>> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>>>
>>>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>>>> http://www.moscowcares.com/<http://www.moscowcares.com/>
>>>>
>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>
>>>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
>>>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill, If you want to
>>>> be like the folks on the hill."
>>>>
>>>> - John Lennon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 19, 2014, at 8:32 AM, Kai Eiselein
>>>>
>> <fotopro63 at hotmail.com<mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com><mailto:fotopro63@
>> hotmail.com<mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com>>>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Let's say a person is unemployed and needs to feed his/family
>>>> poaches a deer or an elk for food, should that person be treated
>>>> the same as a trophy or money poacher who only takes the rack, hide
>>>> or parts that have cash value?
>>>>
>>>> ======================================================= List
>>>> services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
>>>> communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>> ow.com>
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>>>> services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 11:25:02 -0700
>> From: "Saundra Lund"
>> <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm<mailto:v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>>
>> To: "'Kai Eiselein'"
>> <fotopro63 at hotmail.com<mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com>>,
>> <vision2020 at moscow.com<mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On
>> Game
>> Message-ID: <00ed01cf5bfc$ae996b50$0bcc41f0$@ssl1.fastmail.fm>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Before I can participate in your interesting moral question, I need
>> you to clarify for me: are you asking about those "lazy" unemployed &
>> "welfare queens" the GOP & tea baggers are so quick to attack, cut off
>> at the knees, and leave hanging out to dry?
>>
>> Or, are you talking about anyone who is unemployed for any reason
>> whatsoever, including the families with children where an adult is an
>> undocumented immigrant?
>>
>> Looking forward to your clarification!
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kai Eiselein
>> [mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com<mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com>]
>> Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 8:33 AM
>> To: Saundra Lund; vision2020 at moscow.com<mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On
>> Game
>>
>> This also brings up an interesting moral question.
>>
>> Let's say a person is unemployed and needs to feed his/family poaches
>> a deer or an elk for food, should that person be treated the same as a
>> trophy or money poacher who only takes the rack, hide or parts that have
> cash value?
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> From: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm<mailto:v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com<mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 02:23:12 -0700
>>> Subject: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On Game
>>>
>>> If anyone can post the LMT article referenced, I'm sure I'm not the
>>> only one who would appreciate it. It seems to me our tax dollars
>>> would be far, far better spent hunting down these damn poachers than
>>> caving to the paranoia of the mentally unhinged "big bad wolf" crowd.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://boisestatepublicradio.org/post/north-idaho-poachers-taking-he
>>> av
>>> y-toll
>>> -game
>>>
>>> North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On Game
>>>
>>> State wildlife officials in northern Idaho say poachers are killing
>>> far more game animals than wolves.
>>>
>>> Officials tell the Lewiston Tribune that last year in northern Idaho
>>> they confirmed poaching of 30 elk, four moose, 13 mule deer and 57
>>> whitetail deer.
>>>
>>> Officials say a realistic detection rate is 5 percent, meaning
>>> poachers are likely killing about 600 elk, 80 moose, 260 mule deer
>>> and
>> 1,000 whitetail.
>>>
>>> Idaho Fish and Game District Conservation Officer Barry Cummings
>>> says many people don't report wildlife crimes because they don't
>>> consider it a crime against them.
>>>
>>> The fine in Idaho for illegally killing an elk is $750, while the
>>> fine for illegally killing a moose is $10,000.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> =======================================================
>>> List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
>>> communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>> http://www.fsr.net/
>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com<mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> =======================================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> =======================================================
>>
>> End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 94, Issue 82
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