[Vision2020] respect this forum
rhayes at frontier.com
rhayes at frontier.com
Sun Sep 8 20:31:50 PDT 2013
Has been better lately. Don't know if my plea has anything to do with it, but it has been better. What I ask is that "flaming" people does nothing to enhance the discourse, so stick to the issues at hand and ignore the trolls and trolling. That is respect for the larger population of readership.
________________________________
From: deb <debismith at moscow.com>
To: Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>; Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>; rhayes at frontier.com
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Monday, September 9, 2013 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] respect this forum
I try to be "good" but once in a while some idjit
posts something I can't resist.....I'm a sucker for openings for a nasty
"come-back" even though I know it just promotes flame wars....of course, if I
were in real-time and face-to-face, I'd have no idea what to say; I'd just be
gob-smacked and stand there with a goofy grin, wishing I could
be elsewhere..... (UnIess I have had two glasses of wine, then all
bets are off. Fair warning: In Vito Veritas).
My friends say I'm straight-forward and honest,
though very cynical. I have a hunch that means "lacking tact and consideration
for others, with a serious bent towards disbelieving everything".
But I do value the V. No mater what is posted, it
all is interesting and has a piece of the puzzle that is
Moscow--------------
Debi R-S
----- Original Message -----
>From: Sue Hovey
>To: Ted Moffett ; rhayes at frontier.com
>Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 4:44 PM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] respect this forum
>
>
>Yes, I agree. I’m trying valiantly not to post snide or sarcastic remarks that are “gotchas,” even though I sort of enjoyed doing it in the past, particularly if I thought of a really good one. One reason: at my age I need all the friends I can get, and pissing folks off probably works against that goal.
>
>Sueh
>
>From: Ted Moffett
>Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 3:58 PM
>To: rhayes at frontier.com
>Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] respect this forum
> In about a decade of following Vision2020, I have read numerous requests for more civility on this list. While in some respects I agree with these requests, they have never changed the frequency of personal insults. Some have even argued that the mud slinging actually increases list participation, or list readership, and that the list would be more boring, with fewer readers, if everyone was a perfect angel.
>
>Don Henley's (one of the main musicians behind the Eagles) solo career song "Dirty Laundry" expresses it... "Dirty laundry" in media sells! "We all know that Crap is King
>Give us dirty laundry!"
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46bBWBG9r2o
>
>Lyrics to the song below:
>
>I make my living off the Evening News
>Just give me
something-something I can use
>People love it when you lose,
>They love
dirty laundry
>
>Well, I coulda been an actor, but I wound up here
>I
just have to look good, I don't have to be clear
>Come and whisper in my
ear
>Give us dirty laundry
>
>Kick 'em when they're up
>Kick 'em
when they're down
>Kick 'em when they're up
>Kick 'em when they're down
>Kick 'em when they're up
>Kick 'em when they're down
>Kick 'em when
they're up
>Kick 'em all around
>
>We got the
bubble-headed-bleach-blonde who
>Comes on at five
>She can tell you
'bout the plane crash with a gleam
>In her eye
>It's interesting when
people die-
>Give us dirty laundry
>
>Can we film the operation?
>Is the head dead yet?
>You know, the boys in the newsroom got a
>Running bet
>Get the widow on the set!
>We need dirty laundry
>
>You don't really need to find out what's going on
>You don't really
want to know just how far it's gone
>Just leave well enough alone
>Eat
your dirty laundry
>
>Kick 'em when they're up
>Kick 'em when they're
down
>Kick 'em when they're up
>Kick 'em when they're down
>
>Kick 'em
when they're up
>Kick 'em when they're down
>Kick 'em when they're stiff
>Kick 'em all around
>
>Dirty little secrets
>Dirty little lies
>We got our dirty little fingers in everybody's pie
>We love to cut you
down to size
>We love dirty laundry
>
>We can do "The Innuendo"
>We
can dance and sing
>When it's said and done we haven't told you a thing
>We all know that Crap is King
>Give us dirty laundry!
>---------------------------------------
>Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
>
>
>
>On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 11:06 AM, rhayes at frontier.com <rhayes at frontier.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Hello,
>>Please refrain from personal banter on this forum. The personal attacks do nothing but devalue both the arguments and opinions posted, but also the people posting the blather.
>>While I know that V2020 is a free-for-all no moderation community forum, let's show some respect to the majority who use this service to become better informed citizens of the region.
>>I suggest that if someone throws a "bomb," do not respond. If you have a legitimate opinion, state that opinion and leave the personal attack out of it.
>>On an entirely different subject, I know that farmers don't like rain right now, but it certainly is a blessing for those with gardens and lawns.
>>
>>From: "vision2020-request at moscow.com" <vision2020-request at moscow.com>
>>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2013 2:53 PM
>>Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 87, Issue 4
>>
>>
>>Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to
>> vision2020 at moscow.com
>>
>>To subscribe or unsubscribe
via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020
>>or,
via email, send a message with subject or body 'help'
to
>> vision2020-request at moscow.com
>>
>>You can reach the
person managing the list at
>> vision2020-owner at moscow.com
>>
>>When replying, please
edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>than "Re: Contents of
Vision2020 digest..."
>>
>>
>>Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: And
yet no apology . . . (Scott Dredge)
>> 2. This won't surprise any of
us - (Rosemary
Huskey)
>>
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Message:
1
>>Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 14:59:12 -0600
>>From: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
>>To: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>, Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com>
>>Cc: viz <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And
yet no apology . . .
>>Message-ID: <BLU175-W18D7F58A356E0C0D19CFCBE4370 at phx.gbl>
>>Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>
>>For emails intended to be
'offlist', please remember to remove the viz alias from the cc: list.
As Saundra wrote recently to another member who was posting dirty language:
'Have some respect. We have young people who read Vision 2020, and
they do not need to be subjected to your foul explosions. I don?t need
to be subjected to your foul explosions . . . no one does.'
>>
>>It's best
to keep displays of 'lack of mature responsibility' private. And if we
have young people who read Vision 2020 as well as other people who are
decent, moral, and upstanding, it would be best to ix-nay any references to
ircle-say erks-jay as well as similar post from you regarding ubber-ray
olls-day and so forth.
>>
>>From: thansen at moscow.com
>>Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:01:16
-0700
>>To: bear at moscow.com
>>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And yet
no apology . . .
>>
>>I have more important things on my mind and on my
to-do list for the next several months, Mr. Price, than to play
I'm-rubber-you're-glue with some poorly equipped third grader here on the
Viz ad nauseum. So tell ya what . .
>>Here is a message you can
share with your buddies at your next circle jerk and/or at the sandbox
during your next show-and-tell . . .
>>You win!
>>
>>
>>On Aug
31, 2013, at 6:40 AM, Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com> wrote:
>>
>>STRONGLY advise you to
wish in one hand, and............................ well, you know the
rest.
>>
>>With all the due respect you
deserve,
>>
>>Wayne
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Aug 31, 2013, at 3:22 AM, Tom
Hansen wrote:Although I have recently been scolded for what has been
interpreted and perceived to be a lack of maturity on my part, I stepped
forward and apologized, both publicly and privately, to those
affected. After all, to do less would (and should) be considered a
lack of mature responsibility.
>>Subsequently, my feet have been put to the
proverbial fire here on the Viz by certain members who place themselves on
the moral highground.
>>Yet, as reflected in the public exchange below, I
have been referred to as "racist" by Wayne Price, based on nothing more than
his wrongful characterization of an article I posted.
>>No apology from Mr.
Price. No retraction.
>>Accountability and mature
responsibility are fates all of us must bear, not just those to whom some of
us hold a degree of animosity.
>>As such, Mr. Price should account for his
insulting comment. Yet, given the character of those who placed
themseves on the previously mentioned moral highground, none is
expected.
>>Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>"Moscow Cares" (the
most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.moscowcares.com/ Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
>>"There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you
must learn how to smile as you kill If you want to be like the folks on the
hill."
>>- John Lennon
>>
>>
>>On Aug 28, 2013, at 2:04 PM, Tom Hansen
<thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>>
>>No, Mr. Price.
>>That is not racist. The humor was aimed directly at former Army
Major Nidal Hasan, the killer of 13 American soldiers and one unborn child
at Fort Hood, Texas, who was sentenced to death a mere few hours
ago.
>>Howver, you are entitled to your opinion, as shallow as it
is.
>>Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>"Moscow Cares" (the most
fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.moscowcares.com/ Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
>>"There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you
must learn how to smile as you kill If you want to be like the folks on the
hill."
>>- John Lennon
>>
>>
>>On Aug 28, 2013, at 1:50 PM, Wayne Price
<bear at moscow.com> wrote:
>>
>>And that's not racist?
>>Tom, there are only two things wrong
with you - your face!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Aug 28,
2013, at 1:41 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:Courtesy of the Duffel Blog at:
>>http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/08/nidal-hasan-granted-terminal-leave/-------------------------------------Nidal Hasan Granted Terminal Leave<AP_nidal_hasan_jef_130806_16x9_992.jpg>FORT HOOD, TX ? A military jury has granted Army Maj. Nidal Hasan terminal leave today, sparking consternation throughout the military.The decision fanned flames sparked by recent revelations that he was continuing to receive full pay and benefits while on trial for an act of workplace violence that left 13 dead and wounded more than 30 others. Witnesses reported that Hasan shouted ?Allahu Akbar? ? Arabic for ?I am dissatisfied with my working conditions? ? during the attack.By granting him terminal leave, the Army will transfer him from active duty to the ?involuntary reserve, dead? list. He will be required to undergo a final physical, including a single vaccination through an IV.His pay and benefits, including respiration and cardiac function, will be
stopped.At press time, many observers were !
>>upset that he had not
received a harsher
sentence.
>>-------------------------------------
>>
>>Seeya 'round town,
Moscow, because . . .
>>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your
pants on)http://www.moscowcares.com/ Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
>>"There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you
must learn how to smile as you kill If you want to be like the folks on the
hill."
>>- John Lennon
>>
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>>------------------------------
>>
>>Message:
2
>>Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 14:52:07 -0700
>>From: "Rosemary Huskey" <donaldrose at cpcinternet.com>
>>To: "'Moscow Vision
2020'" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Subject: [Vision2020] This
won't surprise any of us -
>>Message-ID:
<00d801cea75d$84dbd680$8e938380$@com>
>>Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
>>
>>
>>A Plutocracy Ruled by Self-Centered
Jerks?
>>
>>
>>August 27, 2013
>>
>>by Joshua Holland <http://billmoyers.com/author/hollandj/>
>>
>>
>><http://cdn.billmoyers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/AP100715021885_size.jp
>>g>
Hassan Nemazee, the wealthy Manhattan investment banker, steps over
a
>>security chain as he leaves federal court in Manhattan after being
sentenced
>>to 12 years in prison for bank fraud. (AP Photo/Larry
Neumeister)
>>
>>Hassan Nemazee, the wealthy Manhattan investment banker,
steps over a
>>security chain as he leaves federal court in Manhattan after
being sentenced
>>to 12 years in prison for bank fraud. (AP Photo/Larry
Neumeister)
>>
>>Two studies released last week confirmed what most of us
already knew: the
>>ultra-wealthy tend to be narcissistic and have a
greater sense of
>>entitlement than the rest of us, and Congress only pays
attention to their
>>interests. Both studies are consistent with earlier
research.
>>
>>In the first study
>><http://psp.sagepub.com/content/early/2013/08/19/0146167213501699.full#aff-1
>>>
, published in the current Personality and Social Psychology
Bulletin,
>>Paul Piff of UC Berkeley conducted five experiments which
demonstrated that
>>"higher social class is associated with increased
entitlement and
>>narcissism." Given the opportunity, Piff also found that
they were more
>>likely to check themselves out in a mirror than were those
of lesser means.
>>
>>Piff looked at how participants scored on a standard
scale of "psychological
>>entitlement," and found that those of a high
social class - based on income
>>levels, education and occupational
prestige - were more likely to say "I
>>honestly feel I'm just more
deserving than others," while people further
>>down the social ladder were
likelier to respond, "I do not necessarily
>>deserve special treatment."
>>
>>In an earlier study
>><http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/02/21/1118373109.full.pdf+html> ,
>>published last year in the Proceedings of the National Academy of
Sciences,
>>Piff and four researchers from the University of Toronto
conducted a series
>>of experiments which found that "upper-class
individuals behave more
>>unethically than lower-class individuals." This
included being more likely
>>to "display unethical decision-making," steal,
lie during a negotiation and
>>cheat in order to win a contest.
>>
>>In
one telling experiment, the researchers observed a busy intersection,
and
>>found that drivers of luxury cars were more likely to cut off other
drivers
>>and less likely to stop for pedestrians crossing the street than
those
>>behind the wheels of more modest vehicles. "In our crosswalk
study, none of
>>the cars in the beater-car category drove through the
crosswalk," Piff told
>>The New York Times
>><http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/12/the-rich-drive-differently-a-stu
>>dy-suggests/?_r=0>
. "But you see this huge boost in a driver's likelihood
>>to commit
infractions in more expensive cars." He added: "BMW drivers are
>>the
worst."
>>
>>Summing up previous research on the topic, Piff notes that
upper-class
>>individuals also "showed reduced sensitivity to others'
suffering" as
>>compared with working- and middle-class
people.
>>
>>Lower-class individuals are more likely to spend time taking
care of others,
>>and they are more embedded in social networks that depend
on mutual aid. By
>>contrast, upper-class individuals prioritize
independence from others: They
>>are less motivated than lower-class
individuals to build social
>>relationships and instead seek to
differentiate themselves from others.
>>
>>These findings may appear to
represent a bit of psychological trivia, but a
>>study
>><http://prq.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/10/04/1065912912459567.abstract?p
>>apetoc>
to be published in Political Science Quarterly by Thomas Hayes, a
>>scholar
at Trinity University, finds that U.S. senators respond
almost
>>exclusively to the interests of their wealthiest constituents -
those more
>>likely to be unethical and less sensitive to the suffering of
others,
>>according to Piff.
>>
>>Hayes took data from the Annenberg
Election Survey - a massive database of
>>public opinion representing the
views of 90,000 voters - and compared them
>>with their senators' voting
records from 2001 through 2010. From 2007
>>through 2010, U.S. senators
were somewhat responsive to the interests of the
>>middle class, but hadn't
been for the first 6 years Hayes studied. The views
>>of the poor didn't
factor into legislators' voting tendencies at all.
>>
>>As Eric Dolan
noted for
>><http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/19/oligarchic-tendencies-study-finds-onl
>>y-the-wealthy-get-represented-in-the-senate/>
The Raw Story, "The neglect of
>>lower income groups was a bipartisan
affair. Democrats were not any more
>>responsive to the poor than
Republicans." Hayes wrote that his analysis
>>"suggests oligarchic
tendencies in the American system, a finding echoed in
>>other
research."
>>
>>Hayes' study is consistent with earlier research,
including Princeton
>>University scholar Larry Bartels' 2005
study
>><http://www.princeton.edu/~bartels/economic.pdf> of "Economic Inequality
>>and Political Representation."
>>
>>There are a
few of ways of looking at these findings. They could be the
>>result of
genuinely held ideological beliefs which happen to justify
>>inequality and
privilege.
>>
>>According to OpenSecrets <http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/averages.php> ,
>>the
average net worth of senators in 2011 was $11.9 million, so it could be
>>a
matter of legislators advancing their own interests and those of
the
>>people with whom they socialize and associate.
>>
>>But MIT
economist Daron Acemoglu, who co-authored
>><http://www.amazon.com/Why-Nations-Fail-Prosperity-ebook/dp/B0058Z4NR8> Why
>>Nations Fail with Harvard's James Robinson, says that this kind of
political
>>inequality is a product of widening economic disparities. "It's
a general
>>pattern throughout history," he told Think Progress
>><http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/03/23/451166/acemoglu-income-inequali
>>ty-political-powe/>
. "When economic inequality increases, the people who
>>have become
economically more powerful will often attempt to use that power
>>in order
to gain even more political power. And once they are able to
>>monopolize
political power, they will start using that for changing the
>>rules in
their favor. And that sort of political inequality is the real
>>danger
that's facing the United States."
>>
>>
>>
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>>End
of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 87, Issue
4
>>*****************************************
>>
>>
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>
>
>________________________________
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>
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> List
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