[Vision2020] ketogenic diets
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Mon Sep 2 20:43:19 PDT 2013
I wanted to reply to this sooner, but I was on vacation.
Read Gary Taubes book "Good Calories, Bad Calories". Or search for
"gary taubes why we get fat" on YouTube.
It would appear that the "high fat causes heart attacks" hypothesis
isn't as strong as it was once thought to be. Research comparing high
fat / low carb unlimited food intake diets vs. the traditional high
carb, low fat, restricted calorie diet consistently shows the high fat
low carb diets allow the subjects to lose more weight and it makes their
cholesterol numbers better.
Here is an article from the New York Times talking about the subject:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/09/science/09tier.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
I chuckle reading this, because there are hallmarks of the climate
science debate here, too. Politics gets involved and suddenly it hurts
your reputation to be skeptical of the consensus view. Everyone studies
the consensus topics, but nobody researches topics that by their very
nature conflict with the consensus view. That doesn't make either one
of the looked-down-upon topics any more true, but I do find it amusing
to see human nature at work.
That's not to say that high fat low carb diets are perfect. I have seen
research that shows that if you have a pre-existing heart condition,
then the ketogenic diet might make it harder to recover in the event of
a heart attack. I've also seen research that suggests that pregnant
women who are obese and on that kind of diet can affect their babies by
making them fatter and have smaller livers. I look at those risks and
compare them to the risks of being obese, and I side with the diet that
will help me lose that weight the best and that makes my cholesterol
numbers better to boot. I mean, look around. How many really old fat
people do you see? But I admit that it's a complicated area of study.
Certainly, if I ever get pregnant, I'll drop off the diet for nine months.
Besides, most of the high fat studies I've run across (I haven't done an
exhaustive search by any means) involve high fat / high carb diets
instead of high fat / low carb diets. In other words, simply adding fat
to the traditional diet appears to be what is risky. Especially to
mice, or rabbits. Yes, one study showed that eating fat from meat
doesn't sit will with an herbivore's biology.
I know one data point is just an anecdote, but my appetite has already
returned to normal, I don't fight sleep in the afternoons, I don't crave
ice cream or sweets, I'm not constantly running to the bathroom, I don't
feel the urge to keep eating when I know I've had enough, and I seem to
have as much energy as I had before and I believe that I'm thinking
clearer. And, my pants are starting to get loose around the waist.
Paul
On 08/31/2013 06:43 AM, Art Deco wrote:
> @Paul,
>
> Do you think that eating a high fat diet for years might have caused
> the condition Atkins died of? Perhaps you should read a little about
> the long term effects of high fat diets, those high in "bad" fats like
> beef fat.
>
> w.
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 12:40 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com
> <mailto:lfalen at turbonet.com>> wrote:
>
> Mediterranean may be misleading as one might think of a lot of
> pasta. Not the case. The DASH diet is similar. One should eat
> whole grains and a minimum of processed or high carb. foods. The
> more color the better (blueberries etc.), eat legumes and nuts.
>
> Roger
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com <mailto:lfalen at turbonet.com>>
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>, "Art
> Deco" <art.deco.studios at gmail.com
> <mailto:art.deco.studios at gmail.com>>, "Paul Rumelhart"
> <godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>>
> Date: 08/30/13 17:58
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] ketogenic diets
>
> I would not recommend any of the diets you mentioned for long
> term. the Atkins diet can lead to health problems in the long
> term. It is especially dangerous for any one with kidney
> problems. For overall good heath I would recommend the
> Mediterranean Diet or something close to it. In other words a
> diet with lots of variety, high in fruits and vegetables,
> vegatable oil such as Olive, some fish, a small amount of red
> meat, and low fat dairy products.
>
> Roger
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com
> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>>
> To: "Art Deco" <art.deco.studios at gmail.com
> <mailto:art.deco.studios at gmail.com>>,
> vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: 08/30/13 17:02
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] ketogenic diets
>
> I've seen this claim before. Here is what snopes says:
> http://www.snopes.com/medical/doctor/atkins.asp
>
> When he went in to the hospital because of head injuries
> he sustained from a fall outside of his clinic on April 8,
> 2003, he weighed 195 pounds. When he died after being in
> a coma 9 days later on April 17, 2003, he weighed in at
> 258 pounds.
>
> I doubt he gained 60 pounds in 9 days on the Atkins diet
> while in a coma. A quote from the spokesperson for the
> Atkins Physician Counsel: "During his coma, as he
> deteriorated and his major organs failed, fluid retention
> and bloating dramatically distorted his body and left him
> at 258 pounds at the time of his death, a documented
> weight gain of over 60 pounds."
>
> Paul
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com
> <mailto:art.deco.studios at gmail.com>>
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, August 30, 2013 3:59 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] ketogenic diets
>
> To see how well it worked long term for Atkins himself
> read about his condition at his death and how his widow
> (an interesting story in itself) tried to suppress the
> photos and evidence of what a bloated pig he was at his death.
>
> w.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Paul Rumelhart
> <godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> Is anyone out there on, or have been on, a ketogenic
> (low carb) diet like Atkins, Zone, South Beach, etc?
> Did it work for you? Did you run into any problems?
>
> I'm in my third week of a low carb diet, losing around
> 2-3 pounds a week. I'm shooting for less than 20g of
> carbs a day, which basically means no breads, no
> potatoes, no pasta, and no sugar-laden anything. For
> those unfamiliar with the reasoning behind being on
> one, you basically have to look at your weight problem
> not as a calories in vs calories out problem, but one
> involving fat storage mechanisms. Carbs and sugars
> cause an insulin response, and insulin is what
> triggers your body to store fat. Avoiding carbs and
> getting your calories from fat and protein doesn't
> cause insulin spiking or insulin resistance, which
> allows your body to shed the excess pounds. It also
> fixes your appetite so you are not hungry all the time
> and eat less.
>
> So far I'm feeling great on the diet, but I just want
> to know if someone has tried it and grown a extra eye
> or something.
>
> Paul
>
>
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> art.deco.studios at gmail.com <mailto:art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
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> art.deco.studios at gmail.com <mailto:art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
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