[Vision2020] Concerning the Government Shutdown . . .

Nicholas Gier ngier006 at gmail.com
Wed Oct 2 17:38:07 PDT 2013 

Hi Roger,

The first sentence of your second paragraph makes it very clear that you
favor delaying Obamacare for a year, unless you get your way on "fairness"
which, as I argued, is a phony issue.  Let me ask you once again: Do you
think it is fair that those without insurance will have to wait a year
under your plan? Please give us all an answer.

Furthermore, according to your new proviso, is it fair that after having
coverage for first time, it will be cancelled after one year if it doesn't
work? Who gets to determine that? That means a GOP Congress would get to
rewrite Obamacare? You can't be serious.

The best indicator of the success of Obamacare is RomneyCare, which has
holes in it that Obamacare will cover. The result will be that the People's
Republic of Mass. will have the 100 percent coverage that every other
civilized country in the world has. Health care costs have slowed more in
Mass. than any other state.

The other result will be that the health of people in the Blue States,
which is already better than the Red States, will improve, and the health
of those in Red States that put hurdles up for implementation of Obamacare
will get worse.  Isn't ideology wonderful!

Obama will stand firm and the GOP will cave, and the Republican brand will
be even more tarnished. I can't wait until the 2014 mid-terms. The GOP
candidate for governor in Virginia will probably be the first causality of
this anti-Obamacare madness. The election is next month and the Democrat
was already slightly ahead.

Bye, bye GOP House Majority; Hello, Demo Congress led by Obama,

Nick


On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 5:06 PM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:

> Scott
>
> I think that a  lawsuit will be filed. The problem is that it will take a
> year or so to go through the sysem. When any law is passed and signed by
> the pesident, he has a duty to enforce it as written, not pick and choose
> those portions he likes.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
> You are reading a lot into my comments that I did not say.  Unlike you, I
> am not defending either side. I think that Obamacare should be funded and
> apply to everyone covered in the original bill for one year. It should be
> sunset for one year. If it works fine, if not it is thrown out.
>
> Roger
>
> ------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Scott Dredge" <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
> To: "Nicholas Gier" <ngier006 at gmail.com>, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> Cc: viz <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: 10/02/13 13:55
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Concerning the Government Shutdown . . .
>
> FIrst off, I agree with everyone Nick has written.
>
> As for Roger's comment:
> <What needs to be done but won't be is either that that Obamacare is
> delayed for a year for everyone or that everyone is subject to the law now.
> Big  business, labor unions and congress should all be subject to the law
> at the same time.>
>
> Everyone is subject to the same law.  In short, the law requires (I
> believe) everyone to be covered since everyone is a liability.  Those
> working for big business, labor unions, and in Congress have insurance
> coverage.  There is no reason to force them over to Obamacare unless they
> themselves opt out from their organizations health care plan and would
> otherwise represent an uncovered liability.  I've heard this same argument
> about everyone being forced over to Obamacare on right wing radio.  It's
> bogus and it's simply a ploy the Republicans to try and weaken Obamacare
> and as Nick points out, isn't it funny all of the sudden that the free
> market Republicans now want 'equality' for everyone.
>
> Roger continues:
> <I believe it is unconstitutiionzl for Obama to let some people of the
> hook. He does not have the constitutional authority to decide on his
> own who to apply it to and who gets a delay.>
>
> If it is indeed unconstitutional then you should be jumping for joy since
> a simple lawsuit run up the flagpole to the Supremes could quickly smash
> this to bits and at the same time validate your belief of
> unconstitutionality.  Good luck with that.  I think this statement is
> should be filed in the category of 'blowing smoke'.
>
> -Scott
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 12:09:57 -0700
> From: ngier006 at gmail.com
> To: lfalen at turbonet.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Concerning the Government Shutdown . . .
>
> Hi Roger,
>
> This whole idea of "fairness" is bogus, especially for a party whose
> members say to all us "bleeding hearts": "Life is unfair."  I say that more
> taxes on super rich is "fair," but the GOP says it's not.  I like my idea
> of equity better than yours.
>
> Even hundreds of GOP congressional aides rose up and said "Unfair!" when
> their employers tried to strip them their government health plans. They saw
> how phony this charade is.  Thanks to the Great Goddess, who is always
> fair, the majority of your sad party refused to do it.
>
> Except for some computer problems, the individual mandate is ready to go,
> none too late, for millions of people without coverage. Such as a friend's
> sister with cancer who was arbitrarily kicked off Medicaid. She will now
> have coverage, no questions asked.  I ask you:  Is it fair, if you had your
> way, that millions of uninsured will not be able to sign up in the
> exchanges???  I can't believe that you would answer Yes.
>
> The situation with employer coverage is very different, and some fixes are
> begging to be made. Already employee hours are being cynically cut because
> their bosses don't want to cover them.  Thanks to the individual mandate--a
> conservative idea by the way--they can find their own coverage on the
> exchanges.  Your charge that the delay for employer coverage is
> "unconstitutional" is absurd.
>
> Your history lesson is misguided. After piling up debt year after year
> (finally tripling it, primarily in an unnecessary escalation of the Cold
> War), Reagan was never threatened by the Democrats not to extend the debt
> limit.  They never attached "do or die" amendments to their budget
> proposals.  They made of their budgets, passed them on time, with Reagan's
> approval. The current GOP has blocked every single budget compromise
> (spending cuts contingent on modest tax increases).  It's the GOP's fault
> that there is no budget.
>
> If Reagan were here today, he would agree with your 2008 GOP presidential
> candidate John McCain: this Tea Party madness must stop.  Reagan would
> certainly not agree with your defense of this egregious, terrorist-like
> obstruction of government.
>
> I challenge you to call your GOP representatives and relay McCain's
> message to them. Even Boehner did not want this to happen, but he caved
> into his radical right.  He will eventually have to come back and drop this
> insane Obamacare provision. The number of House Republicans ready to do
> this is growing day by day.  They know very well that Obama will not give
> in to blackmail and extortion.
>
> Roger, I can't believe you really want to be left standing on the extreme,
> extreme right.  You don't do it locally, and you should not do it
> nationally.
> Why the inconsistency?
>
> Eagerly waiting and wishing for the GOP, particularly its cowardly House
> Speaker, to come to its senses, or collapse under the weight of own
> irrationality and stupidity,
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 11:32 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>
> The shutdown will hurt a lot of people. Most people live paycheck to
> paycheck. They have bills to pay. Also some people who need medical care
> may not be able to get it.
>
> What needs to be done but won't be is either that that Obamacare is
> delayed for a year for everyone or that everyone is subject to the law now.
> Big  business, labor unions and congress should all be subject to the law
> at the same time. I believe it is unconstitutiionzl for Obama to let some
> people of the hook. He does not have the constitutional authority to decide
> on his own who to apply it to and who gets a delay.
> The Democrats and the lamestream media are doing their best to blame the
> shutdown on the Republicans and they will probably get away with it. But it
> is not so. They are all responsible. The Democrats say that the Republicans
> wont deal unless they get their way on Obamacare. But the Democrats are
> just as recalcitrant. the House has sent a variety of different bills to
> the Senate and they have rejected them all. Now the House is sending over
> bills to fund various portions of the government and the Senate seems bound
> and determined to reject these. So just who is responsible for the
> continued shutdown. I long for the the days of Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neil.
>
> Roger
>
>
> ------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> To: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: 10/02/13 10:46
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Concerning the Government Shutdown . . .
>
>
>
>
> "In the event of a shutdown, stateside commissaries, including Alaska and
> Hawaii, will be open for a full business day on Oct. 1 to reduce the amount
> of perishables on-hand before beginning a systematic closure process to
> account for unsold products and secure facilities.
>
> Jeu recommends that customers stay tuned in to their local news outlets
> for information about any impact to services on their installations.
>
>
> During a shutdown, commissary customers should be able to access the DeCA
> website <http://www.commissaries.com/index.cfm>. However, that site and
> the agency's social media platforms - Facebook, Twitter and other sites -
> would not be updated after Oct. 1 until the shutdown is over. Customers
> should be able to access the Department of Defense website<http://www.defense.gov/>,
> and its social media platforms for any updated information and breaking
> news that affects service members and federal government civilian
> employees."
>
>
> Source:
>
> http://www.commissaries.com/press_room/press_release/2013/DeCA_67_13.cfm
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>
>  - John Lennon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 2, 2013, at 9:27 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Although the Military Pay Act was passed and signed virtually seconds
> before midnight Monday, thus ensuring that our soldiers, sailors, airmen,
> and Marines will continue to be paid . . .
>
> Commissaries on military installations, funded by the Department of
> Defense budget, closed their doors yesterday morning.  This may not be much
> of an inconvenience to Installations like Fort Benning (Columbus, Georgia
> is just outside the main gate) or Fort Dix (Wrightstown, New Jersey is just
> outside its main gate).
>
> But, when the commissary at Fort Irwin (home of the 11th Armored Cavalry
> Regiment, 916th Support Brigade, and the National Training Center
> Operations Group), suddenly the nearest location for grocery shopping
> became Barstow, California . . . 45 (that's right, FORTY-FIVE) MILES AWAY.
>
> I'm guessing that there is not one member of congress who suddenly had
> that inconvenience thrust upon them!
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
>  Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>
>  - John Lennon
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
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>
>
>
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