[Vision2020] systemic injustice

Mon Jul 22 18:35:57 PDT 2013

Martin punching Zimmerman in the face and pounding his head into the 
pavement repeatedly and then telling he was going to die when he noticed 
his gun doesn't factor into it at all?  It *has* to be about race?

Fine.  I just don't get it.  Enjoy your fantasy.  Be sure to get extra 
outraged about it for me, ok?

Paul

On 07/22/2013 06:13 PM, Sue Hovey wrote:
> Weighing in on this topic for the first time, but briefly; I think, 
> "white guy stalks and guns down an innocent black teenager" is exactly 
> what happened.
> Sue H
> *From:* Sunil Ramalingam <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, July 22, 2013 6:03 PM
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com> ; 
> godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice
> Disservice to Zimmerman? He killed a kid because he's a dumbshit cop 
> wannabe, and you're concerned about disservices to that sphincter?
>
> I didn't follow the case closely and I don't know if there was enough 
> evidence to convict. I won't criticize the verdict because I would 
> gladly take it if I were Zimmerman's lawyer.
>
> But I think the cops did a poor job at the beginning and that affected 
> everything that followed. And anyone who pretends race doesn't affect 
> the criminal justice system is full of crap.
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:47:10 -0700
> From: godshatter at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice
> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>
> I agree he should have gone home.  I just don't like the 
> mis-characterization of him as some guy that stalked Martin through 
> the trees and murdered him in cold blood only because he was black.  
> That's a disservice to Zimmerman, and it's only done because he had 
> the gall to be carrying a handgun on his person in a political 
> environment where gun control is all the rage, and because he wasn't 
> charged with second degree murder immediately (through no fault of his 
> own).  Oh, and because everyone wants to think of him as white, and 
> therefore "entitled".
>
> So let me ask you, do you think there was sufficient evidence to 
> convict Zimmerman on second degree murder charges?  Did the jury, in 
> your personal opinion, show systemic racism in their verdict?  Also, 
> do you think "white guy stalks and guns down innocent black teenager" 
> is a fair summary of the events that happened that night?
>
> Paul
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Sent:* Monday, July 22, 2013 4:25 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice
> Paul,
>
> Your defense of Zimmerman stopped being outlandish last week; you're 
> well beyond that now.
>
> I don't think you should use 'meme' to describe what others are saying 
> until you comprehend that Zimmerman should have listened to the 
> dispatcher and gone home. This happened because he had a gun; if he 
> didn't he would have gone home.
>
> He had called 911; he was done.
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:42:56 -0700
> From: godshatter at yahoo.com
> To: rhayes at frontier.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice
>
> I respectfully disagree with your conclusion.  I don't think the jury 
> verdict is an example of systemic racism. That was my original point.  
> They just didn't have the evidence needed to convict.  From looking at 
> the evidence myself, I support their decision.  Race doesn't enter 
> into it, it's just a conclusion based on the evidence.
>
> I do see two places where systemic racism might have occurred:
>
> 1. When the police decided not to arrest Zimmerman at the very 
> beginning.  I'm assuming the police didn't arrest him because they 
> didn't think they had a case, which was born out by the not guilty 
> verdict.  They probably should have arrested him anyway and let the 
> courts figure that out, though. Maybe they didn't arrest him because 
> he was white/hispanic. That's certainly possible.  It's also possible 
> that it had more to do with the fact that he knew them.  That would be 
> cronyism, though.
>
> 2. The other place where I see systemic racism is in how the media and 
> the liberal community both are treating this case. NBC doctored the 
> 911 call at the very beginning to make it look like racial profiling, 
> and everyone seems to have jumped on that bandwagon.  This didn't have 
> to be about race.  The fact that it became about race shows a large 
> element of systemic racism in our media and in many other areas, 
> including in political circles.  I've seen nothing to make me think 
> that Zimmerman targeted Martin because he was black.  Because he was 
> suspicious, sure.  Because he was a teenager, maybe. But not because 
> of his race.
>
> I also object, in a nice, non-confrontational way, with your 
> characterization of people posting here about the "rightness of the 
> death of a boy at the hands of a vigilante".  I have never said that 
> Trayvon Martin should have died, nor have I expressed an opinion about 
> whether or not I would think that a good thing.  I haven't seen anyone 
> else do so, either.  I've just been trying to express why I think the 
> jury's verdict made sense, and to counter the "white guy stalks and 
> guns down an innocent black teenager" meme that, based on the 
> evidence, seems to be made out of whole cloth.
>
> I do think that Martin should not have attacked Zimmerman, if that is 
> indeed what happened.  The evidence I've seen points that way.  I 
> think it's tragic that he died, especially since this whole 
> confrontation could have easily been avoided by both Martin and Zimmerman.
>
> Paul
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* "rhayes at frontier.com" <rhayes at frontier.com>
> *To:* "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, July 22, 2013 10:43 AM
> *Subject:* [Vision2020] systemic injustice
> To those who insist on posting the rightness of the death of a boy at 
> the hands of a vigilante, I post a soft spoken message. And I would 
> remind you that your words may be hurtful...
> I live in a bubble far removed from the rest of the country and my 
> past. When, as a young man, I moved to Moscow from just north of the 
> Mason-Dixon line, I was relieved to be free from all the issues of 
> race. Yea, I'm white. Privileged by my birth. As a kid, race and 
> ethnicity were overwhelming to me. Italians hated the Irish, Poles 
> were disliked and distrusted by almost everyone. The blacks didn't 
> like whites in general. Whites distrusted blacks. Everyone had names 
> for everyone else's ethnicity. Whops, spics, hunkies, kikes, 
> hillbillies... the list of derogatory names goes on and on.
> I was despised because of being sometimes Irish, sometimes a sort of 
> Polack. I learned to run and run fast to keep from being beaten up by 
> what ever group that happened to cross my path. However, I didn't 
> see/understand systemic racism until our Boy Scout troop tried to go 
> swimming in the CITY pool. They stopped us because we were an 
> integrated troop. Being young I never stopped to think why there never 
> were black kids in the pool...EVER. The man that stopped us was a 
> "greasy" (another derogatory slur)Greek with kinky hair and a pretty 
> dark complexion. He stopped Jerome with his arm saying, "Not You!" Our 
> scout master must have known what he was up to, and to this day I hold 
> him in high esteem as a brave and principled man.  And when that Greek 
> guy stopped him from entering the locker, I looked at Jerome, and 
> maybe for the first time saw him as a black kid with whom I had 
> camped, sang, cooked dinners, and saw what his life entailed. It was 
> much more than name calling, being hated, distrusted. It was a system 
> of hatred.
> Back to the bubble thing...
> So I moved here and left ethnicity and race issues behind. Well, not 
> really. It isn't so much an issue here because the majority, the vast 
> majority of people are white, like me. It is inevitable that this will 
> change. It is already changing and changing rapidly. How will this 
> area deal with race and ethnicity? There are hate groups and hateful 
> people conveniently located nearby. We need to be vigilant with our 
> communities, and with ourselves. It is convenient to be blind to the 
> hatred surrounding us.
> I suppose one good thing that the so called "jury" in Florida proved 
> is that SYSTEMIC racism still exists. I sometimes forget that. I live 
> in a bubble. Now I am reminded, but should a young man's life be 
> sacrificed so that I would again see? People who deny that injustice 
> exists live in a state of blind shame.
>
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