[Vision2020] systemic injustice

Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
Mon Jul 22 17:53:34 PDT 2013 

Did not say it was.  I said the race portion that I added to my earlier 
little summary was brought from a few different areas.  So then I went 
to find an actual quote from someone to use.  I was not trying to imply 
that that comment was racist.

Paul

On 07/22/2013 05:28 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:
> How is my comment considered racist, Mr. Rumelhart!
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>
> - John Lennon
>
>
> On Jul 22, 2013, at 5:21 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com 
> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>>
>> Fine.  The race stuff I added was in response to how everyone makes 
>> this into a race issue.  Here is a quote from Tom Hansen:
>>
>> "George Zimmerman, an armed 28-year old neighborhood watch, follows, 
>> shoots and kills Trayvon Martin, a 17-year old boy (armed with 
>> Skittles) who lives in the neighborhood in which he was killed."
>>
>> Is that a fair characterization of the events that transpired that 
>> night?
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On 07/22/2013 05:13 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>>> No one is characterizing the issue the way you did below. You should 
>>> have more care and respect for others when talking about this issue.
>>>
>>> On Jul 22, 2013, at 4:47 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com 
>>> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree he should have gone home.  I just don't like the 
>>>> mis-characterization of him as some guy that stalked Martin through 
>>>> the trees and murdered him in cold blood only because he was 
>>>> black.  That's a disservice to Zimmerman, and it's only done 
>>>> because he had the gall to be carrying a handgun on his person in a 
>>>> political environment where gun control is all the rage, and 
>>>> because he wasn't charged with second degree murder immediately 
>>>> (through no fault of his own).  Oh, and because everyone wants to 
>>>> think of him as white, and therefore "entitled".
>>>>
>>>> So let me ask you, do you think there was sufficient evidence to 
>>>> convict Zimmerman on second degree murder charges?  Did the jury, 
>>>> in your personal opinion, show systemic racism in their verdict?  
>>>> Also, do you think "white guy stalks and guns down innocent black 
>>>> teenager" is a fair summary of the events that happened that night?
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com 
>>>> <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>>
>>>> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, July 22, 2013 4:25 PM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice
>>>>
>>>> Paul,
>>>>
>>>> Your defense of Zimmerman stopped being outlandish last week; 
>>>> you're well beyond that now.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think you should use 'meme' to describe what others are 
>>>> saying until you comprehend that Zimmerman should have listened to 
>>>> the dispatcher and gone home. This happened because he had a gun; 
>>>> if he didn't he would have gone home.
>>>>
>>>> He had called 911; he was done.
>>>>
>>>> Sunil
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:42:56 -0700
>>>> From: godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
>>>> To: rhayes at frontier.com <mailto:rhayes at frontier.com>; 
>>>> vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice
>>>>
>>>> I respectfully disagree with your conclusion.  I don't think the 
>>>> jury verdict is an example of systemic racism.  That was my 
>>>> original point. They just didn't have the evidence needed to 
>>>> convict.  From looking at the evidence myself, I support their 
>>>> decision.  Race doesn't enter into it, it's just a conclusion based 
>>>> on the evidence.
>>>>
>>>> I do see two places where systemic racism might have occurred:
>>>>
>>>> 1. When the police decided not to arrest Zimmerman at the very 
>>>> beginning.  I'm assuming the police didn't arrest him because they 
>>>> didn't think they had a case, which was born out by the not guilty 
>>>> verdict.  They probably should have arrested him anyway and let the 
>>>> courts figure that out, though. Maybe they didn't arrest him 
>>>> because he was white/hispanic.  That's certainly possible.  It's 
>>>> also possible that it had more to do with the fact that he knew 
>>>> them.  That would be cronyism, though.
>>>>
>>>> 2. The other place where I see systemic racism is in how the media 
>>>> and the liberal community both are treating this case.  NBC 
>>>> doctored the 911 call at the very beginning to make it look like 
>>>> racial profiling, and everyone seems to have jumped on that 
>>>> bandwagon.  This didn't have to be about race.  The fact that it 
>>>> became about race shows a large element of systemic racism in our 
>>>> media and in many other areas, including in political circles.  
>>>> I've seen nothing to make me think that Zimmerman targeted Martin 
>>>> because he was black.  Because he was suspicious, sure.  Because he 
>>>> was a teenager, maybe. But not because of his race.
>>>>
>>>> I also object, in a nice, non-confrontational way, with your 
>>>> characterization of people posting here about the "rightness of the 
>>>> death of a boy at the hands of a vigilante".  I have never said 
>>>> that Trayvon Martin should have died, nor have I expressed an 
>>>> opinion about whether or not I would think that a good thing.  I 
>>>> haven't seen anyone else do so, either.  I've just been trying to 
>>>> express why I think the jury's verdict made sense, and to counter 
>>>> the "white guy stalks and guns down an innocent black teenager" 
>>>> meme that, based on the evidence, seems to be made out of whole cloth.
>>>>
>>>> I do think that Martin should not have attacked Zimmerman, if that 
>>>> is indeed what happened.  The evidence I've seen points that way.  
>>>> I think it's tragic that he died, especially since this whole 
>>>> confrontation could have easily been avoided by both Martin and 
>>>> Zimmerman.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *From:* "rhayes at frontier.com <mailto:rhayes at frontier.com>" 
>>>> <rhayes at frontier.com <mailto:rhayes at frontier.com>>
>>>> *To:* "vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>" 
>>>> <vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, July 22, 2013 10:43 AM
>>>> *Subject:* [Vision2020] systemic injustice
>>>>
>>>> To those who insist on posting the rightness of the death of a boy 
>>>> at the hands of a vigilante, I post a soft spoken message. And I 
>>>> would remind you that your words may be hurtful...
>>>> I live in a bubble far removed from the rest of the country and my 
>>>> past. When, as a young man, I moved to Moscow from just north of 
>>>> the Mason-Dixon line, I was relieved to be free from all the issues 
>>>> of race. Yea, I'm white. Privileged by my birth. As a kid, race and 
>>>> ethnicity were overwhelming to me. Italians hated the Irish, Poles 
>>>> were disliked and distrusted by almost everyone. The blacks didn't 
>>>> like whites in general. Whites distrusted blacks. Everyone had 
>>>> names for everyone else's ethnicity. Whops, spics, hunkies, kikes, 
>>>> hillbillies... the list of derogatory names goes on and on.
>>>> I was despised because of being sometimes Irish, sometimes a sort 
>>>> of Polack. I learned to run and run fast to keep from being beaten 
>>>> up by what ever group that happened to cross my path. However, I 
>>>> didn't see/understand systemic racism until our Boy Scout troop 
>>>> tried to go swimming in the CITY pool. They stopped us because we 
>>>> were an integrated troop. Being young I never stopped to think why 
>>>> there never were black kids in the pool...EVER. The man that 
>>>> stopped us was a "greasy" (another derogatory slur)Greek with kinky 
>>>> hair and a pretty dark complexion. He stopped Jerome with his arm 
>>>> saying, "Not You!" Our scout master must have known what he was up 
>>>> to, and to this day I hold him in high esteem as a brave and 
>>>> principled man.  And when that Greek guy stopped him from entering 
>>>> the locker, I looked at Jerome, and maybe for the first time saw 
>>>> him as a black kid with whom I had camped, sang, cooked dinners, 
>>>> and saw what his life entailed. It was much more than name calling, 
>>>> being hated, distrusted. It was a system of hatred.
>>>> Back to the bubble thing...
>>>> So I moved here and left ethnicity and race issues behind. Well, 
>>>> not really. It isn't so much an issue here because the majority, 
>>>> the vast majority of people are white, like me. It is inevitable 
>>>> that this will change. It is already changing and changing rapidly. 
>>>> How will this area deal with race and ethnicity? There are hate 
>>>> groups and hateful people conveniently located nearby. We need to 
>>>> be vigilant with our communities, and with ourselves. It is 
>>>> convenient to be blind to the hatred surrounding us.
>>>> I suppose one good thing that the so called "jury" in Florida 
>>>> proved is that SYSTEMIC racism still exists. I sometimes forget 
>>>> that. I live in a bubble. Now I am reminded, but should a young 
>>>> man's life be sacrificed so that I would again see? People who deny 
>>>> that injustice exists live in a state of blind shame.
>>>>
>>>> =======================================================
>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> =======================================================
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ======================================================= List 
>>>> services made available by First Step Internet, serving the 
>>>> communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net 
>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com 
>>>> =======================================================
>>>>
>>>> =======================================================
>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>> http://www.fsr.net <http://www.fsr.net/>
>>>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>> =======================================================
>>>>
>>>> =======================================================
>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> =======================================================
>>
>> =======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20130722/06e59b66/attachment-0001.html>

More information about the Vision2020 mailing list