[Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue 95
Gary Crabtree
moscowlocksmith at gmail.com
Thu Jul 18 06:51:51 PDT 2013
I very strongly suspect that the likelihood of being jumped and beaten by
one of the local seventeen year olds would be vanishingly small to the
point that to bet otherwise would be to throw away cash.
I have to imagine that it's fun for some to endlessly bang away at the
"stalked the poor child" narrative but, an equally valid perspective would
be that Zimmerman was performing a public service to his community by being
involved in a neighborhood watch program and was in no way attempting to be
surreptitious or covert in his attention to Martin's presence.
Poor decisions were made by both Zimmerman and Martin. Zimmerman's
decisions may have been ill considered (following on foot if that is in
fact what he did) but legal. Martin's decision to leap out of the bushes
and assault a stranger instead of simply continuing on the seventy yard to
his fathers girlfriends home was not.
g
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>wrote:
> The best point to make is not that Zimmerman was racist, or that the
> jurors were racist. There is no basis for either assertion.
>
> That doesn't mean the case isn't symptomatic of a kind of persistent
> institutionalized racism. You say first reports were that Zimmerman
> attacked an unarmed kid. But that report turned out to be false.
>
> How is it false? He was 17 and unarmed. Say what you want but Zimmerman
> stalked then shot and killed an unarmed 17-year-old boy who was merely
> walking around his own neighborhood. How could you not feel outrage?
>
> Why don't you drive around the streets of Moscow and follow all the
> 17-year-old kids you see. See what happens. There seems to be a kind of
> wreckless negligence on the part of Zimmerman, if nothing else.
>
> On Jul 17, 2013, at 6:27 PM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>
>
> Just a few comments.
> From the first reports out it appeared that Zimmerman had unjustly
> attacked and unarmed kid. A picture was shown of a 12 year old Trayvon.
> This report turned out to be false. Ziommerman is not a monster or a saint.
> He was a mentor for black kids and he took a black girl to the prom. He
> obviously is not a racist. This was an unfortunate event where both have
> some responsibility. We are a nation of laws. On the bases of the evidence,
> the jury had no choice but to acquit. There have been many cases where
> whites has have killed blacks due to racial hatred and they should have
> been executed for it. Just two example are Emmett Till and the three Civil
> Rights workers. This case is entirely different.
> Roger
>
> ------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> To: "Saundra Lund" <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com, "Keely Emerine-Mix" <siyocreo at live.com>
> Date: 07/15/13 18:29
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue 95
>
> A few points.
>
> On 07/15/2013 05:36 PM, Saundra Lund wrote:
>
>
> No, Paul – *you* are missing the point. Make as many excuses about
> Zimmerman’s “recklessness” as you want, but that doesn’t change the *fact*that an innocent child who was doing
> *nothing wrong* is now dead because *he* (Trayvon) decided to exercise *
> his* right to defind *himself* against the deadly menace named George
> Zimmerman.
>
>
>
>
>
> Make no mistake about it: Zimmerman was *stalking* this child the way a
> cat stalks a bird.
>
>
>
> In Zimmerman's version of events, he was trying to keep tabs on him until
> the police got there.
>
>
>
>
>
> And, make no mistake about it: Trayvon Martin’s death was unjust. It is
> *absolutely unjust* when an innocent child doing not a thing in the world
> wrong winds up dead because a nut with an indisputable chip on his shoulder
> has a gun, and the injustice is further magnified when the killer escapes
> punishment.
>
>
>
> He was acquitted in a court of law, because there wasn't enough evidence
> to convict him. So what do you propose? Throw the rule of law aside for
> this one case where you're sure he's guilty somehow?
>
>
>
>
>
> Trayvon had every right to “stand his ground” against a gun-carrying
> whacko who had already been told by LE *not* to follow the victim. Any
> man, woman, or child of *any* color with connected brain cells would feel
> threatened being stalked at night by an unknown dangerous creep like
> Zimmerman.
>
>
>
> Martin had no way of knowing that Zimmerman had a gun, and didn't find out
> until after he was fighting him.
>
>
>
>
>
> And, if you don’t Get why folks are rightly upset that a monster like
> Zimmerman gets a free criminal pass for killing an innocent child and why
> they want to organize a vigil – or millions of vigils -- in Trayvon
> Martin’s honor, then I don’t know what to say other than I pity you and
> your lack of humanity.
>
>
>
> You have the nerve to call Zimmerman a "monster", and berate me for being
> subjective at the same time? And why do you always assume that if I
> disagree with you that I "lack humanity"? I know myself, and could give a
> crap if you know how much "humanity" I have.
>
>
>
>
>
> Finally, why don’t you just give it a rest? Your biased explanation of
> why you felt the verdict was just was fine & mildly interesting, even
> though you included a lot of subjective speculation supporting your bias I
> guess you hoped we’d miss (LOL – too bad for you, I didn’t miss your
> selective subjectivity).
>
>
>
> I'm getting the idea that "bias" means "disagrees with Saundra", but I
> could be wrong.
>
>
>
>
>
> But, how about losing the arrogance that makes you think causes you don’t
> care about aren’t worthy, and how about losing the hubris that makes you
> think it appropriate to tell others where they should be directing their
> energies? If you want to organize or get out there & protest for your list
> of causes, have at it! No one is stopping you or suggesting you should be
> directing your focus elsewhere.
>
>
>
> Just trying to inject a little rationality into what appears to be yet
> another witch hunt. A pastime I find enjoyable sometimes.
>
>
>
>
>
> Why, then, you do feel the need to chide others who *do* care – and care
> deeply – about the completely preventable tragic death of an innocent child
> at the hands of a lunatic vigilante?
>
>
>
> That death could have been prevented two ways. Zimmerman could have left
> him alone after he'd done his job, and Martin could have not fought him.
> It's one of those real-life thingys where it's never as black and white (no
> pun intended) as people would like to believe.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Saundra
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [
> mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com <vision2020-bounces at moscow.com>] *On
> Behalf Of* Paul Rumelhart
> *Sent:* Monday, July 15, 2013 1:37 PM
> *To:* Keely Emerine-Mix; vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue 95
>
>
>
> The problem as I see it, Keely, is that you want it to be an injustice.
> You want it to be about the innocent black kid that was gunned down by the
> armed white man for no reason other than he was black. Facts to the
> contrary be damned. It's a nice story, but just remember that that's what
> it is: a story.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Keely Emerine-Mix <siyocreo at live.com> <siyocreo at live.com>
> *To:* "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> <vision2020 at moscow.com> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, July 15, 2013 1:10 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue 95
>
>
>
>
> Tom, be there Friday at 6, tell everyone you know, bring whatever
> microphone you can, and I'll see you there. I don't care how many people
> show up. I care very much that I myself not be silent in the face of such
> an injustice.
>
> Keely
>
>
>
> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>
> > From: vision2020-request at moscow.com
> > Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue 95
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 11:44:08 -0700
> >
> > Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to
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> > than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: Trayvon Martin rally? (Tom Hansen)
> > 2. Re: Trayvon Martin rally? (Scott Dredge)
> > 3. Re: Trayvon Martin rally? (Paul Rumelhart)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 11:28:21 -0700
> > From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> <thansen at moscow.com>
> > To: Keely Emerine-Mix <siyocreo at live.com> <siyocreo at live.com>
> > Cc: "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> <vision2020 at moscow.com> <vision2020 at moscow.com>, Jeanne McHale
> > <jeannemchale at hotmail.com> <jeannemchale at hotmail.com>, Fritz Knorr
> <fritzknorr at gmail.com> <fritzknorr at gmail.com>, LGBTQA
> > Office <lgbtoffice at uidaho.edu> <lgbtoffice at uidaho.edu>, "UI Human
> Rights, Access & Inclusion"
> > <csuarez at uidaho.edu> <csuarez at uidaho.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trayvon Martin rally?
> > Message-ID: <21BCEC70-D46E-4829-B922-24FA74223826 at moscow.com><21BCEC70-D46E-4829-B922-24FA74223826 at moscow.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > I am with you 1,000,000,000 . . . %, Keely.
> >
> > Please let me know what I, or Moscow Cares, can do to make this rally a
> reality, and consider it done.
> >
> > Come on, V-Peeps. GIVE A DAMN !
> >
> > Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> >
> > "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> > http://www.MoscowCares.com
> >
> > Tom Hansen
> > Moscow, Idaho
> >
> > "There's room at the top they are telling you still
> > But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
> > If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
> >
> > - John Lennon
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jul 15, 2013, at 11:18 AM, Keely Emerine-Mix <siyocreo at live.com><siyocreo at live.com>wrote:
> >
> > > Visionaires,
> > >
> > > I've been out of town for two weeks so I don't know if there's a rally
> or anything scheduled on the Palouse in support of the Trayvon Martin
> family and to express outrage at the verdict. If not, I'd suggest 6 p.m.
> Friday at Friendship Square. Please either inform me of something
> previously planned, or pass this around. I'd be willing to speak and I know
> others of you would, too.
> > >
> > > This saddens and angers me beyond measure. We have to speak out.
> > >
> > > Love,
> > > Keely
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
> > > =======================================================
> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > =======================================================
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 12:31:27 -0600
> > From: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
> > To: Keely Emerine-Mix <siyocreo at live.com> <siyocreo at live.com>, viz
> <vision2020 at moscow.com> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trayvon Martin rally?
> > Message-ID: <BLU175-W9CE824D6AE4D362F4DE8BE4670 at phx.gbl><BLU175-W9CE824D6AE4D362F4DE8BE4670 at phx.gbl>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > What would be the point? It was very controversial to bring George
> Zimmerman to trial in the first place. He was acquitted. Not even a hung
> jury. Outright full acquittal.
> >
> > I hate sounding like a broken record but for whatever reason I can't
> seem to get a basic point across that ***we do not have system of mob
> rule***. If we did, Zimmerman would have already been lynched without due
> process long ago. Would that be less of an outrage?
> >
> > -Scott
> >
> > From: siyocreo at live.com
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 11:18:06 -0700
> > Subject: [Vision2020] Trayvon Martin rally?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Visionaires,
> >
> > I've been out of town for two weeks so I don't know if there's a rally
> or anything scheduled on the Palouse in support of the Trayvon Martin
> family and to express outrage at the verdict. If not, I'd suggest 6 p.m.
> Friday at Friendship Square. Please either inform me of something
> previously planned, or pass this around. I'd be willing to speak and I know
> others of you would, too.
> >
> > This saddens and angers me beyond measure. We have to speak out.
> >
> > Love,
> > Keely
> >
> >
> > www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
> >
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > =======================================================
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 11:44:05 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> > To: Keely Emerine-Mix <siyocreo at live.com> <siyocreo at live.com>,
> "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > <vision2020 at moscow.com> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trayvon Martin rally?
> > Message-ID:
> > <1373913845.39333.YahooMailNeo at web163602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><1373913845.39333.YahooMailNeo at web163602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Keely,
> >
> > Did you look at the evidence?? I don't see how the jury could have done
> any differently.? Zimmerman was using the "self-defense" defense, and there
> was enough evidence of that to provide reasonable doubt (his injuries, the
> witness who saw the guy in the white sweater beating on the guy in the red
> sweater, the inability to determine who was shouting for help).? According
> to Zimmerman, Martin saw his weapon and they fought for it and Zimmerman
> ended up shooting him in the chest.? Since Martin isn't around to give his
> side of events (conveniently, I know) and since there is no evidence to
> disprove this, they pretty much had to acquit.? In my opinion, of course.?
> To prove second degree murder, they would have to disprove the self-defense
> defense and show that he was unhinged enough to take this opportunity to go
> kill Martin.? I haven't seen any evidence of that, either.
> >
> >
> > The media has worked hard to make this about race, but there was no
> indication I saw that Zimmerman was racially motivated.? If anything,
> Martin was the one framing everything by race.? NBC had to resort to
> editing the 9-1-1 tape to make it look like it was racially motivated, but
> the real 9-1-1 tape doesn't appear to show this (at least what I've heard
> of it).?
> >
> >
> > If you want to get out there and protest something, I recommend
> protesting what NBC did when editing the 9-1-1 tape in an attempt to ignite
> racial tensions.? Or protest what the NSA has been doing.? Or protest the
> drone strikes or the secret courts or the secret reasoning for gathering
> information on everyone that can't be revealed.? Or protest how the US is
> going after Snowden so hard instead of cleaning house.?
> >
> >
> > Don't be distracted by this media circus.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Keely Emerine-Mix <siyocreo at live.com> <siyocreo at live.com>
> > To: "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> <vision2020 at moscow.com> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 11:18 AM
> > Subject: [Vision2020] Trayvon Martin rally?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Visionaires,
> >
> > I've been out of town for two weeks so I don't know if there's a rally
> or anything scheduled on the Palouse in support of the Trayvon Martin
> family and to express outrage at the verdict.? If not, I'd suggest 6 p.m.
> Friday at Friendship Square.? Please either inform me of something
> previously planned, or pass this around.? I'd be willing to speak and I
> know others of you would, too.
> >
> > This saddens and angers me beyond measure.? We have to speak out.
> >
> > Love,
> > Keely
> >
> >
> >
> > www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://www.fsr.net
> > ? ? ? ? ? mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > =======================================================
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > =======================================================
> >
> > End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue 95
> > ******************************************
>
>
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> =======================================================
>
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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