[Vision2020] Boy Scouts At It Again

[Darrell Keim]

My guess is 1920s, based on uniforms and hairstyles.  Wonder who the guys
are.


On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 2:28 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:

> Circa ?
>
> [image: image.jpeg]
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>
> - John Lennon
>
>
>
> On Jul 16, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> BSA policy at the time for African Americans was to allow the individual
> troops to decide whether or not to be integrated.  This is a policy they
> have also debated in recent times in regards to homosexuals.  Your example
> illustrates the perils of the policy.
>
> I don't know enough about the Jamboree to go any further in-depth than I
> already have regarding policies.  It simply hasn't been something I paid
> attention to.  I do my thing locally, and leave it at that.
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>wrote:
>
>> Hi Again Darrell, and I do appreciate you taking your time to share your
>> thoughts and speculations from “you as a person.”****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I hope you calling me “Rose” was just a typo, but to avoid tarring Rose
>> with a brush that’s rightly mine, I just want to make sure folks know it
>> was me – Saundra – who brought up this topic.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Oh, how I wish you were part of the group that went into planning the
>> National Jamboree!  If you are correct about the risk of being sued as a
>> motivation behind banning obese boy and adult Scouts and leaders from the
>> Jamboree, I think your suggestions might have been helpful in reaching a
>> decision that wasn’t discriminatory.**
>>
>> * *
>>
>> As it stands, though, I find the decision heartbreaking & inexcusable.
>> As anyone who has spent any time trying to educate themselves about our
>> nation’s food crisis knows, the factors leading to obesity are far more
>> than just some lack of “motivation.”  I do understand that the kids &
>> adults were given significant advance notice of the new restrictions, so if
>> motivation was enough to fix the obesity crisis, perhaps that would be one
>> thing.  But, that’s simply *not* the case, and the result is that the
>> BSA has decided to – once again – exclude valuable kids and adults.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Let’s not forget, too, that there is no absolute correlation between BMI
>> an individual’s physical fitness level!  The BSA’s decision to focus on
>> that – rather than on actual physical fitness – is beyond ignorant at best
>> and mean-spirited at worse, it seems to me.  This leaves yet another really
>> bad taste in my mouth with respect to BSA.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Finally – and these are genuine questions – do you know if differently
>> abled kids with physical challenges also banned from this Jamboree because
>> the location selected is more physically challenging?  Or, have they
>> already been excluded from participating in previous Jamborees?  ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Perhaps because I’m older than you, I’ve had less . . . pleasant BSA
>> experiences with respect to inclusion, and they are the kind of things that
>> have stuck with me for nearly half a century.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> My brother is older than I, and since my mom was a “den mother,” my
>> exposure to Cub Scouts/Boy Scouts began very early in my life.  The boys
>> had such a blast, and I wanted to be a member, too.  My mom explained that
>> first, I was too, young, but second, that when I was old enough, I could be
>> a Bluebird, which was for girls.  Even at that early age, it seemed unfair
>> that I couldn’t stick with the big brother I worshipped, but there you have
>> it, and I can’t say that I gave it much further thought as a 3- or 4-year
>> old.  Some of my fondest childhood memories are of the Pinewood Derbies
>> J  Once I was old enough, I became a Bluebird & never looked back – I’ve
>> still got all my beads  J****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I don’t know when the Explorer program that allows adolescent girls
>> started, but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t around back in the Dark Ages of my
>> childhood  J  At that time, Boy Scouts and Camp Fire (I don’t know about
>> GSA, but I suspect it was the same) were definitely gender specific.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> The first *serious* BSA dark cloud came when I was in first grade,
>> IIRC.  A new friend of my brother’s, who happened to be black, from our
>> elementary school wanted to join my brother’s troop.  Say what you want
>> about how BSA hates to exclude kids, but boys of color were *absolutely
>> excluded* from the BSA troops where I grew up, while I was a Bluebird
>> with girls of color.  I’ll spare you the details of the vitriol I heard at
>> some big meeting that was more than just my brother’s den members parents
>> before my mother whisked me out, but it wasn’t pretty and was my
>> introduction to the racism enshrined in BSA at the time (mid- to late 1960s
>> and early 1970s) where I lived (Bible Belt OKC & later the Dallas
>> metropolitan area).  My mom quit being a den mother over the discrimination
>> and exclusion of boys of color & wanted to yank my brother from Scouts.  My
>> father disagreed, so he decided the decision was one for my brother (who
>> was probably 8 or 9 at the time – great parenting . . . NOT) to make.  My
>> brother absolutely agonized over the decision.  He decided to continue with
>> Scouting, a decision he to this day beats himself up about.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> To be fair, I have no idea of what any “official” BSA policy of racial
>> discrimination was at the time, but regardless of any official policy, BSA
>> racism & exclusion were rampant where I lived in two different states.  I
>> suppose it would be fair to say that the BSA is responsible to my personal
>> awareness of institutional racism.  Even as a young child, the . . .
>> injustice was perfectly clear to me.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Flash forward a few years to when we lived in a relatively conservative
>> and staunchly Catholic part of the Bay Area.  That time, it was one of *
>> my* pals who was excluded from BSA.  Why?  Because his parents were
>> atheists.  As an 11-year-old boy, Bobby himself wasn’t sure what he
>> believed with respect to God, but he was ethical enough – even as a kid –
>> to not feel comfortable taking an oath to a God he wasn’t sure existed.**
>> **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> In fairness, as a kid, I wasn’t aware of the link between Boy Scouts and
>> churches, but having had a lot of exposure to Scouts, it was beyond stupid
>> to me that a kid was punished and excluded for being honest.  I’m sure
>> that’s an excellent lesson he learned about honesty, yes?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> So, that’s BSA exclusion experience #3, although #1 (no girls allowed)
>> wasn’t particularly traumatic.  I suspect, though, it played a role in my
>> motivation of working for gender equality as a human right  J****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Then, let’s flash forward quite a few years to Idaho – I think we all
>> know that brings us to sexual orientation discrimination.  I’m not going to
>> mention any names because the *adults* responsible still live here.
>> Personally, I think they should have the guts to publically apologize for
>> the bigoted way *some* of them have treated this community’s kids, but I
>> imagine h*ll will freeze over before they have that kind of integrity.***
>> *
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Please let me take this opportunity to thank you for your advocacy within
>> the local Scouting for your advocacy of our gay youth.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> And, please accept my gratitude for your contributions to the BSA.  As I
>> hope this email makes clear, my personal BSA experiences have been a real
>> mixed bag.  On the one hand, some of my best childhood memories really are
>> of Cub Scouting things like attending the meetings as a tiny girl when my
>> mom was a den mom and going to the Pinewood Derbies (and watching my
>> brother & father make those magical cars) especially but also to other
>> Scout family activities.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> OTOH, some of the most heartbreaking aspects of my childhood result from
>> the BSA excluding really wonderful kids because of their skin color,
>> religion, or sexual orientation.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> And, I really *hate* to see the BSA step in it yet again by replacing
>> one banned group of kids with another, only this time they’re targeting and
>> excluding kids who are *already* Scouts rather than preventing those
>> kids from becoming Scouts.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Maybe that’s next.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> After all, that’s a newer “acceptable” form of discrimination in American
>> society as a whole, isn’t it?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Saundra****
>>
>> Moscow, ID****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
>> ****
>>
>> ~ Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* keim152 at gmail.com [mailto:keim152 at gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Darrell
>> Keim
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2013 11:13 AM
>> *To:* Saundra Lund
>> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Boy Scouts At It Again****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *Sure, Rose, I can give a few thoughts.  I am still involved in the BSA
>> as a local district volunteer.  But, in no way should my thoughts be
>> construed as anything but my own speculations.  *****
>>
>> * *****
>>
>> *My comments are interspersed below.*****
>>
>> -------------------------------------------****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> It's not too often that I find myself speechless, but the BSA & its****
>>
>> supporters have accomplished it by deciding to exclude obese adults and**
>> **
>>
>> Scouts from the important Jamboree:****
>>
>>
>> http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/15/19488312-obese-boy-scouts-left-ou
>> ****
>>
>> t-of-national-gathering?lite****
>>
>> *I don’t usually pay much attention to the National Jamboree.  I prefer
>> to focus my efforts locally, where I feel I can best make a difference.
>> With that said, I know it is a great experience.  *****
>>
>> * *****
>>
>> *I read the linked article.  It appears they chose a physically
>> challenging location for their camp, and gave lots of notice to prospective
>> participants that they need to get in shape if they wish to attend.
>> Physical fitness is a major goal of the BSA, a goal they have recently
>> pledged to work harder on.  I like this, and feel that providing boys with
>> a goal to work towards is an excellent motivator.  I would’ve liked to see
>> them have some activities in less physically challenging areas of the
>> camp.  I’d like boys off all levels to be able to attend, with the
>> motivator being seeing the more fun activities the physically fit boys can
>> do in addition to the regular activities.*****
>>
>> * *****
>>
>> *It also appears they are getting health info of those planning to
>> attend, and not permitting people over a certain BMI.  I do not like this,
>> but I suspect I know where it is coming from:  Controlling risk.  The BSA
>> is self-insured.  They want to make certain no one dies or is seriously
>> injured because they over-estimated their physical abilities.  Put simply:
>> They don’t want to get sued.  I would rather they had explained the risks
>> clearly, and required waivers from people over a certain BMI.  People can
>> make their own choices.*****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Granted, since I'm female, I never participated in the BSA (I went the***
>> *
>>
>> Bluebird and Camp Fire route), but my brother did, and attending Jamboree
>> ****
>>
>> was one of the highlights of his life.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> *Actually, as a female you could’ve participated in their Exploring
>> program for adolescents.*****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Looking at the photos of him in those years, it's possible he would have*
>> ***
>>
>> been excluded during those chunky pre-puberty years.  And, he'd have
>> missed****
>>
>> the opportunity to return in better shape and more enthusiastic about
>> being****
>>
>> physically active.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> I guess there's just something about the BSA that deep down *wants* to
>> have****
>>
>> groups to exclude.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> *Speaking as a former professional, I can tell you the BSA HATES to
>> exclude kids.  Most volunteers and professionals passionately believe that
>> every kid should benefit from the Scout program.  My success as a
>> professional was dependent on my ability to grow the local program.  My
>> sworn duty was to give every kid in the area a chance to participate as I
>> grew the local BSA program.  The more kids in the program, the stronger the
>> program is. I did not like that there was a population of local kids that I
>> could not reach.  But, the kids must be willing to follow the Scout Oath
>> and Law.  *****
>>
>> * *****
>>
>> *As recent BSA policy changes have shown, interpretation of that law
>> evolves very slowly. Our council held a series of Fireside Chats in the
>> lead-up to the recent policy change.  I went to the Lewiston chat.  It was
>> led by the Council executive and top two council volunteers.  Purpose was
>> to gauge local feelings about the proposed change.  There were about 30
>> people present.  Opinion in that room was strongly against changing the
>> policy(At that time the proposal was a total lift on the ban, not the
>> eventual compromise proposal that passed).  I was THE ONLY PERSON to speak
>> favorably of lifting the ban.  And the furthest I went was to ask the
>> following questions “Why does the BSA put itself in the position of
>> dictating theology to churches?  Why don’t we let the churches pick their
>> own Scout leaders, as they did before the BSA instituted a no homosexuals
>> rule in the nineties?”*****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>   First, it was blacks, then it was gays . . . and now****
>>
>> it's the obese.  Oh, and aren't atheists still banned?****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> *Todays BSA is a reflection of the organizations that Charter its
>> troops.  That is mostly conservative churches (LDS, Methodist, Catholic and
>> Lutheran are some of their largest charter partners).  Charter
>> Organizations approve all major policies.  The BSA will change as the
>> desires of these organizations change.  Since we are talking about
>> churches, I suspect those changes will be very slow.  Societal views
>> changed on racism, and are changing on homosexuality.  As are the BSA
>> policies about them.  I suspect the BSA will always ban atheists, due to
>> their Charter Organization structure.*****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> But, honestly, I guess I shouldn't be surprised this is coming from an***
>> *
>>
>> organization with long history of justifying discrimination.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Darrell, I seem to recall you've devoted a part of your life to BSA (they
>> ****
>>
>> are/were lucky to have you!), and I'm genuinely interested in your
>> thoughts****
>>
>> about this, if you care to share.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Saundra****
>>
>> Moscow, ID****
>>
>>
>>
>>  ****
>>
>
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