[Vision2020] Boy Scouts At It Again

[Darrell Keim]

Whoops, apologies to Rose and Saundra!


On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>wrote:

> Hi Again Darrell, and I do appreciate you taking your time to share your
> thoughts and speculations from “you as a person.”****
>
> ** **
>
> I hope you calling me “Rose” was just a typo, but to avoid tarring Rose
> with a brush that’s rightly mine, I just want to make sure folks know it
> was me – Saundra – who brought up this topic.****
>
> ** **
>
> Oh, how I wish you were part of the group that went into planning the
> National Jamboree!  If you are correct about the risk of being sued as a
> motivation behind banning obese boy and adult Scouts and leaders from the
> Jamboree, I think your suggestions might have been helpful in reaching a
> decision that wasn’t discriminatory.**
>
> * *
>
> As it stands, though, I find the decision heartbreaking & inexcusable.  As
> anyone who has spent any time trying to educate themselves about our
> nation’s food crisis knows, the factors leading to obesity are far more
> than just some lack of “motivation.”  I do understand that the kids &
> adults were given significant advance notice of the new restrictions, so if
> motivation was enough to fix the obesity crisis, perhaps that would be one
> thing.  But, that’s simply *not* the case, and the result is that the BSA
> has decided to – once again – exclude valuable kids and adults.****
>
> ** **
>
> Let’s not forget, too, that there is no absolute correlation between BMI
> an individual’s physical fitness level!  The BSA’s decision to focus on
> that – rather than on actual physical fitness – is beyond ignorant at best
> and mean-spirited at worse, it seems to me.  This leaves yet another really
> bad taste in my mouth with respect to BSA.****
>
> ** **
>
> Finally – and these are genuine questions – do you know if differently
> abled kids with physical challenges also banned from this Jamboree because
> the location selected is more physically challenging?  Or, have they
> already been excluded from participating in previous Jamborees?  ****
>
> ** **
>
> Perhaps because I’m older than you, I’ve had less . . . pleasant BSA
> experiences with respect to inclusion, and they are the kind of things that
> have stuck with me for nearly half a century.****
>
> ** **
>
> My brother is older than I, and since my mom was a “den mother,” my
> exposure to Cub Scouts/Boy Scouts began very early in my life.  The boys
> had such a blast, and I wanted to be a member, too.  My mom explained that
> first, I was too, young, but second, that when I was old enough, I could be
> a Bluebird, which was for girls.  Even at that early age, it seemed unfair
> that I couldn’t stick with the big brother I worshipped, but there you have
> it, and I can’t say that I gave it much further thought as a 3- or 4-year
> old.  Some of my fondest childhood memories are of the Pinewood Derbies  J
> Once I was old enough, I became a Bluebird & never looked back – I’ve still
> got all my beads  J****
>
> ** **
>
> I don’t know when the Explorer program that allows adolescent girls
> started, but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t around back in the Dark Ages of my
> childhood  J  At that time, Boy Scouts and Camp Fire (I don’t know about
> GSA, but I suspect it was the same) were definitely gender specific.****
>
> ** **
>
> The first *serious* BSA dark cloud came when I was in first grade, IIRC.
> A new friend of my brother’s, who happened to be black, from our elementary
> school wanted to join my brother’s troop.  Say what you want about how BSA
> hates to exclude kids, but boys of color were *absolutely excluded* from
> the BSA troops where I grew up, while I was a Bluebird with girls of
> color.  I’ll spare you the details of the vitriol I heard at some big
> meeting that was more than just my brother’s den members parents before my
> mother whisked me out, but it wasn’t pretty and was my introduction to the
> racism enshrined in BSA at the time (mid- to late 1960s and early 1970s)
> where I lived (Bible Belt OKC & later the Dallas metropolitan area).  My
> mom quit being a den mother over the discrimination and exclusion of boys
> of color & wanted to yank my brother from Scouts.  My father disagreed, so
> he decided the decision was one for my brother (who was probably 8 or 9 at
> the time – great parenting . . . NOT) to make.  My brother absolutely
> agonized over the decision.  He decided to continue with Scouting, a
> decision he to this day beats himself up about.****
>
> ** **
>
> To be fair, I have no idea of what any “official” BSA policy of racial
> discrimination was at the time, but regardless of any official policy, BSA
> racism & exclusion were rampant where I lived in two different states.  I
> suppose it would be fair to say that the BSA is responsible to my personal
> awareness of institutional racism.  Even as a young child, the . . .
> injustice was perfectly clear to me.****
>
> ** **
>
> Flash forward a few years to when we lived in a relatively conservative
> and staunchly Catholic part of the Bay Area.  That time, it was one of *my
> * pals who was excluded from BSA.  Why?  Because his parents were
> atheists.  As an 11-year-old boy, Bobby himself wasn’t sure what he
> believed with respect to God, but he was ethical enough – even as a kid –
> to not feel comfortable taking an oath to a God he wasn’t sure existed.***
> *
>
> ** **
>
> In fairness, as a kid, I wasn’t aware of the link between Boy Scouts and
> churches, but having had a lot of exposure to Scouts, it was beyond stupid
> to me that a kid was punished and excluded for being honest.  I’m sure
> that’s an excellent lesson he learned about honesty, yes?****
>
> ** **
>
> So, that’s BSA exclusion experience #3, although #1 (no girls allowed)
> wasn’t particularly traumatic.  I suspect, though, it played a role in my
> motivation of working for gender equality as a human right  J****
>
> ** **
>
> Then, let’s flash forward quite a few years to Idaho – I think we all know
> that brings us to sexual orientation discrimination.  I’m not going to
> mention any names because the *adults* responsible still live here.
> Personally, I think they should have the guts to publically apologize for
> the bigoted way *some* of them have treated this community’s kids, but I
> imagine h*ll will freeze over before they have that kind of integrity.****
>
> ** **
>
> Please let me take this opportunity to thank you for your advocacy within
> the local Scouting for your advocacy of our gay youth.****
>
> ** **
>
> And, please accept my gratitude for your contributions to the BSA.  As I
> hope this email makes clear, my personal BSA experiences have been a real
> mixed bag.  On the one hand, some of my best childhood memories really are
> of Cub Scouting things like attending the meetings as a tiny girl when my
> mom was a den mom and going to the Pinewood Derbies (and watching my
> brother & father make those magical cars) especially but also to other
> Scout family activities.****
>
> ** **
>
> OTOH, some of the most heartbreaking aspects of my childhood result from
> the BSA excluding really wonderful kids because of their skin color,
> religion, or sexual orientation.****
>
> ** **
>
> And, I really *hate* to see the BSA step in it yet again by replacing one
> banned group of kids with another, only this time they’re targeting and
> excluding kids who are *already* Scouts rather than preventing those kids
> from becoming Scouts.****
>
> ** **
>
> Maybe that’s next.****
>
> ** **
>
> After all, that’s a newer “acceptable” form of discrimination in American
> society as a whole, isn’t it?****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Saundra****
>
> Moscow, ID****
>
> ** **
>
> Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.*
> ***
>
> ~ Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* keim152 at gmail.com [mailto:keim152 at gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Darrell
> Keim
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2013 11:13 AM
> *To:* Saundra Lund
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* Re: Boy Scouts At It Again****
>
> ** **
>
> *Sure, Rose, I can give a few thoughts.  I am still involved in the BSA
> as a local district volunteer.  But, in no way should my thoughts be
> construed as anything but my own speculations.  *****
>
> * *****
>
> *My comments are interspersed below.*****
>
> -------------------------------------------****
>
>  ****
>
> It's not too often that I find myself speechless, but the BSA & its****
>
> supporters have accomplished it by deciding to exclude obese adults and***
> *
>
> Scouts from the important Jamboree:****
>
>
> http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/15/19488312-obese-boy-scouts-left-ou
> ****
>
> t-of-national-gathering?lite****
>
> *I don’t usually pay much attention to the National Jamboree.  I prefer
> to focus my efforts locally, where I feel I can best make a difference.
> With that said, I know it is a great experience.  *****
>
> * *****
>
> *I read the linked article.  It appears they chose a physically
> challenging location for their camp, and gave lots of notice to prospective
> participants that they need to get in shape if they wish to attend.
> Physical fitness is a major goal of the BSA, a goal they have recently
> pledged to work harder on.  I like this, and feel that providing boys with
> a goal to work towards is an excellent motivator.  I would’ve liked to see
> them have some activities in less physically challenging areas of the
> camp.  I’d like boys off all levels to be able to attend, with the
> motivator being seeing the more fun activities the physically fit boys can
> do in addition to the regular activities.*****
>
> * *****
>
> *It also appears they are getting health info of those planning to
> attend, and not permitting people over a certain BMI.  I do not like this,
> but I suspect I know where it is coming from:  Controlling risk.  The BSA
> is self-insured.  They want to make certain no one dies or is seriously
> injured because they over-estimated their physical abilities.  Put simply:
> They don’t want to get sued.  I would rather they had explained the risks
> clearly, and required waivers from people over a certain BMI.  People can
> make their own choices.*****
>
>  ****
>
> Granted, since I'm female, I never participated in the BSA (I went the****
>
> Bluebird and Camp Fire route), but my brother did, and attending Jamboree*
> ***
>
> was one of the highlights of his life.****
>
>  ****
>
> *Actually, as a female you could’ve participated in their Exploring
> program for adolescents.*****
>
>  ****
>
> Looking at the photos of him in those years, it's possible he would have**
> **
>
> been excluded during those chunky pre-puberty years.  And, he'd have missed
> ****
>
> the opportunity to return in better shape and more enthusiastic about being
> ****
>
> physically active.****
>
>  ****
>
> I guess there's just something about the BSA that deep down *wants* to have
> ****
>
> groups to exclude.****
>
>  ****
>
> *Speaking as a former professional, I can tell you the BSA HATES to
> exclude kids.  Most volunteers and professionals passionately believe that
> every kid should benefit from the Scout program.  My success as a
> professional was dependent on my ability to grow the local program.  My
> sworn duty was to give every kid in the area a chance to participate as I
> grew the local BSA program.  The more kids in the program, the stronger the
> program is. I did not like that there was a population of local kids that I
> could not reach.  But, the kids must be willing to follow the Scout Oath
> and Law.  *****
>
> * *****
>
> *As recent BSA policy changes have shown, interpretation of that law
> evolves very slowly. Our council held a series of Fireside Chats in the
> lead-up to the recent policy change.  I went to the Lewiston chat.  It was
> led by the Council executive and top two council volunteers.  Purpose was
> to gauge local feelings about the proposed change.  There were about 30
> people present.  Opinion in that room was strongly against changing the
> policy(At that time the proposal was a total lift on the ban, not the
> eventual compromise proposal that passed).  I was THE ONLY PERSON to speak
> favorably of lifting the ban.  And the furthest I went was to ask the
> following questions “Why does the BSA put itself in the position of
> dictating theology to churches?  Why don’t we let the churches pick their
> own Scout leaders, as they did before the BSA instituted a no homosexuals
> rule in the nineties?”*****
>
>  ****
>
>   First, it was blacks, then it was gays . . . and now****
>
> it's the obese.  Oh, and aren't atheists still banned?****
>
>  ****
>
> *Todays BSA is a reflection of the organizations that Charter its
> troops.  That is mostly conservative churches (LDS, Methodist, Catholic and
> Lutheran are some of their largest charter partners).  Charter
> Organizations approve all major policies.  The BSA will change as the
> desires of these organizations change.  Since we are talking about
> churches, I suspect those changes will be very slow.  Societal views
> changed on racism, and are changing on homosexuality.  As are the BSA
> policies about them.  I suspect the BSA will always ban atheists, due to
> their Charter Organization structure.*****
>
>  ****
>
> But, honestly, I guess I shouldn't be surprised this is coming from an****
>
> organization with long history of justifying discrimination.****
>
>  ****
>
> Darrell, I seem to recall you've devoted a part of your life to BSA (they*
> ***
>
> are/were lucky to have you!), and I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts
> ****
>
> about this, if you care to share.****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> Saundra****
>
> Moscow, ID****
>
>
>
>  ****
>
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