[Vision2020] Happy gun violence day!

Gary Crabtree jampot at roadrunner.com
Mon Jan 21 18:23:42 PST 2013 

It appears that my information was out of date and the story has changed and 
I was wrong. Sorry.

It would seem that what hasn't changed is your warm and cheerful 
disposition. Thanks for being
such a delight to interact with and making V2020 the friendly gathering that 
it is.

g

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Saundra Lund" <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 5:31 PM
To: "'Gary Crabtree'" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
Cc: "'vision 2020'" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Happy gun violence day!

> That's nothing more than inaccurate early reporting that's since been
> factually disproven.
>
> If you disagree, then you are also advocating that the shooter's brother,
> also inaccurately identified to Pete Williams by those same federal & 
> state
> sources, should be arrested as one of the shooters even though subsequent
> investigation cleared up that misinformation!
>
> And, law enforcement should be looking for more shooters because early
> reporting indicated the possibility of more than one shooter!!
>
> And, the shooter's mother really worked at Sandy Hook Elementary School at
> the time of the shooting!!!
>
> And, the shooter had a recent confrontation with several Sandy Hook
> Elementary School staff!!!!
>
> And so forth.
>
> You've made it clear you don't have any concern whatsoever for accuracy, 
> but
> for those who *do* care:
> http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/17/us/connecticut-school-shooting/index.html
> http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/newtown.asp
>
> The second link successfully debunks ***many*** of the fallacies you & 
> your
> pals without a shred of decency amongst the lot are working overtime to
> spread.
>
>
>
> Saundra
> Moscow, ID
>
> Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
> ~ Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Crabtree [mailto:jampot at roadrunner.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 4:54 PM
> To: Saundra Lund; Gary Crabtree
> Cc: vision 2020
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Happy gun violence day!
>
> http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495
>
> "...certifiably crazy conspiracy anti-government birther bloggers?"
>
> g
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Saundra Lund" <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 2:53 PM
> To: "Gary Crabtree" <moscowlocksmith at gmail.com>
> Cc: "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Happy gun violence day!
>
>> Gary, if you personally want to believe certifiably crazy conspiracy
>> anti-government birther bloggers instead of those like law enforcement
>> and other first responders who were actually there, and the MEs who
>> examined the victims, knock yourself out.
>>
>> But to try to present the baseless unhinged rantings of the lunatic
>> fringe as factual rightly completely destroys any credibility you ever
>> hoped to have amongst rational and sane people.
>>
>> Next, you'll be posting that the Sandy Hook Elementary School tragedy
>> didn't really happen & was nothing more than a hoax perpetuated by the
>> illegitimate president & his anti-gun minions. Those families who lost
>> their beloved children are just actors.
>>
>> Here's a hint.  When the men in the white coats come to your door, do
>> perhaps the first sane thing you've done in years:  LET THEM IN!
>> Planet Earth invites your long overdue return to sanity.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 21, 2013, at 01:35 PM, Gary Crabtree wrote:
>>> What puts the icing on the the let's ban assault weapons cake is the
>>> fact that The AR was not used at Newtown. The rifle was left in the
>>> the little psychopath's carand was not used at the school. The push
>>> to ban a particularly disliked type of firearm is pure opportunism.
>>>
>>> g
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Sunil Ramalingam <
>>> sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >  Paul,
>>> >
>>> > You say, 'The sad fact is that if the assault weapons ban had been
>>> > in place, Newtown would have happened anyway.'
>>> >
>>> > How is this a fact? Do you have evidence that this young man would
>>> > have had the same access to the weapon if it were not in his home?
>>> >
>>> > How is this not just your opinion?
>>> >
>>> > Sunil
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> > Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:39:56 -0800
>>> > From: godshatter at yahoo.com
>>> > To: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
>>> > CC: vision2020 at moscow.com; rhayes at frontier.com
>>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Happy gun violence day!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > It's infringing upon a right that the Constitution itself says
>>> > cannot be infringed upon.  So, in order to do so anyway, it had
>>> > damn well better be a very needed law.  The sad fact is that if the
>>> > assault weapons ban had been in place, Newtown would have happened
>>> > anyway.  The guy who did that did it for a reason that was more
>>> > complicated than "Hey look!  Here's an AR-15!
>>> > There's nothing on Netflix, the gym's closed, I'm climbing the
>>> > walls here, maybe I should go shoot some kids!"
>>> >
>>> > I have no doubt that you can buy a gun that works just as well as
>>> > an
>>> > AR-15
>>> > but that doesn't have a pistol grip or a flash suppressor now.
>>> > Shortly after this ban, the just-barely non-assault version of the
>>> > rifle will come out.  The statistics will show that there was a
>>> > drop in "assault weapon"
>>> > shootings, because the AR-15 mark II won't be counted in them, and
>>> > the politicians will try to con the people into thinking they
>>> > actually helped anything.  This ban is stupid.  It's all political,
>>> > and it's pointless in a practical sense.
>>> >
>>> > Paul
>>> >
>>> > On 01/19/2013 08:29 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>>> >
>>> > This is long but let me make clear that there is a considerable
>>> > difference between the view that we shouldn't impinge on rights on
>>> > a whim and the view I was criticizing. I think we're all in
>>> > agreement that whims won't do it.
>>> >
>>> > On Jan 19, 2013, at 7:21 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Let's see.
>>> >
>>> > 1.  When the Constitution was written, we'd just finished a war in
>>> > which we rebelled against those in authority and claimed our
>>> > independence as a nation for ourselves.
>>> >
>>> > 2.  Shortly after that, we wrote our own Constitution, which
>>> > describes the ways in which government is limited.  No more royal
>>> > decrees for us.
>>> >
>>> > 3.  When adding the Bill of Rights, the restriction against
>>> > infringing on our right to bear arms was added as the second such
>>> > amendment, right after freedom of speech.
>>> >
>>> > 4.  One assumes from this that the right to bear arms was indeed
>>> > important to our forefathers.  And not because they wanted us to
>>> > hunt.
>>> >
>>> > Given all that, I think it's reasonable to assume that the right in
>>> > question shouldn't be infringed upon on a whim.  Events like
>>> > Newtown are rare, and each one gets splashed across the news for a
>>> > month or more because it's very dramatic.  I don't like seeing
>>> > children die either, but reducing magazine sizes to 10 rounds and
>>> > removing scary-looking rifles while leaving just-as-functional
>>> > rifles alone isn't going to stop the next spree shooting, even if
>>> > it actually makes it's way into law.  Klebold was on this tenth
>>> > 10-round magazine when he killed himself.  This guy that did
>>> > Newtown would have had just as easy access to his mothers AR-15,
>>> > since there is no way in hell they will pass something that will
>>> > make people have to turn them in.  An ineffective law passed only
>>> > because people are riled up about kids getting shot isn't worth
>>> > weakening the 2nd amendment, in my opinion.
>>> >
>>> > I can get behind better background checks, well thought-out
>>> > restrictions on people suspected of being mentally ill (that's a
>>> > whole other can of worms when we are talking about people's rights,
>>> > but we should start the conversation), better data collection, and
>>> > incentives to keep weapons secured and safe.  Banning assault
>>> > weapons, though, is a farce.  It's a political ploy that's using
>>> > people's fear and anger to pass something that makes it look like
>>> > they are doing something that will help.
>>> >
>>> > I'm not a member of the NRA, and I think they go way overboard
>>> > sometimes.
>>> > Still, I haven't seen them or anyone else trying to claim that gun
>>> > ownership should be unrestricted.  We already have gun
>>> > registration, background checks, cooling off periods, and
>>> > restrictions against actual assault weapons (i.e. fully automatic
> weapons).
>>> >
>>> > Paul
>>> >
>>> > On 01/19/2013 02:01 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>>> >
>>> > How is the second amendment under threat?
>>> >
>>> > The NRA interpretation of the 2nd amendment is absurd. It is in
>>> > fact so absurd that neither you nor anyone else would try to defend
>>> > it in a public setting. Which is why this post will be followed by
>>> > silence from you and others.
>>> >
>>> > The idea that the right to own guns is UNRESTRICTED is absurd. NO
>>> > rights are unrestricted. If speech can be restricted, then so can
>>> > the sale and purchase of guns. And speech is and can be restricted.
>>> >
>>> > If the NRA position has something to do with RIGHTS, then you
>>> > should be able to name another right that is similarly
>>> > unrestricted. But you can't.
>>> > The NRA position has nothing to do with rights. It has to do with
>>> > gun sales.
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Paul Rumelhart
>>> > <godshatter at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > The nerve of those people!  Having a rally in support of one of the
>>> > amendments to the Constitution!  How despicable!  How un-American!
>>> >
>>> > Paul
>>> >
>>> > On 01/19/2013 09:32 AM, rhayes at frontier.com wrote:
>>> >
>>> >  Happy Gun Violence day today everyone! Hope you have a bang!
>>> >
>>> >    *From:* "vision2020-request at moscow.com"
>>> > <vision2020-request at moscow.com>
>>> > <vision2020-request at moscow.com> <vision2020-request at moscow.com>
>>> > *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> > *Sent:* Saturday, January 19, 2013 6:06 AM
>>> > *Subject:* Vision2020 Digest, Vol 79, Issue 205
>>> >
>>> > Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to
>>> >     vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> >
>>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> >     http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020
>>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> >     vision2020-request at moscow.com
>>> >
>>> > You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> >     vision2020-owner at moscow.com
>>> >
>>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> > than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Today's Topics:
>>> >
>>> >   1. Saturday is "National Gun Appreciation Day" (Ron Force)
>>> >   2. Re: Saturday is "National Gun Appreciation Day" (Tom Hansen)
>>> >   3. Caturday (January 19, 2013) (Tom Hansen)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > ---
>>> >
>>> > Message: 1
>>> > Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:40:44 -0800 (PST)
>>> > From: Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com>
>>> > To: Moscow Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> > Subject: [Vision2020] Saturday is "National Gun Appreciation Day"
>>> > Message-ID:
>>> >     <1358570444.77938.YahooMailNeo at web162701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>> >
>>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWHFMQ8Wlk
>>> >
>>> > ?
>>> > Ron Force
>>> > Moscow Idaho USA
>>> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
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>>> > on2020/attachments/20130118/083e8bc1/attachment-0001.html>
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Message: 2
>>> > Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:59:17 -0800
>>> > From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
>>> > To: Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com>
>>> > Cc: Moscow Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Saturday is "National Gun Appreciation Day"
>>> > Message-ID: <CD416371-3602-4B0A-8D55-2B2508E88FB8 at moscow.com>
>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Gun Rally Planned This Weekend in Coeur d'Alene
>>> > http://tinyurl.com/agnm5kj
>>> >
>>> > COEUR D'ALENE, Idaho (AP) - Gun advocates in northern Idaho are
>>> > planning a rally and encouraging participants to openly carry
>>> > weapons as allowed by Idaho law.
>>> >
>>> > The Coeur d'Alene Press reports (http://bit.ly/WdqSJr) that the
>>> > Second Amendment rally and gun appreciation event is planned for 1 
>>> > p.m.
>>> > Saturday
>>> > at Black Sheep Sporting Goods in Coeur d'Alene.
>>> >
>>> > Organizers say guest speakers include state lawmakers.
>>> >
>>> > --------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>> >
>>> > "Moscow Cares"
>>> > http://www.MoscowCares.com
>>> >
>>> > Tom Hansen
>>> > Moscow, Idaho
>>> >
>>> > "There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you
>>> > must learn how to smile as you kill If you want to be like the
>>> > folks on the hill."
>>> >
>>> > - John Lennon
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Jan 18, 2013, at 8:40 PM, Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWHFMQ8Wlk
>>> > >
>>> > > Ron Force
>>> > > Moscow Idaho USA
>>> > > =======================================================
>>> > > List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
>>> > > communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>> > >              http://www.fsr.net
>>> > >          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>>> > on2020/attachments/20130118/7250b146/attachment-0001.html>
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Message: 3
>>> > Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 06:06:20 -0800
>>> > From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
>>> > To: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> > Subject: [Vision2020] Caturday (January 19, 2013)
>>> > Message-ID: <
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
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>>
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>> communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>

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