[Vision2020] Another hate group?

[lfalen]

The SPLC has done some good work in regard to groups like the KKK. Morris Dees has gone overboard in in labeling groups like the League of the South as a hate group. They have members from all races.  As to his character, he has been charges with incest and child abuse. Mark Potok has lableled most patriot groups as hate groups, Rush Limbaugh in particular. Note I am not a big fan of Rush's . On the aniversary of the Spanish Civil War he gave a glowing report on the Abraham Lincoln Brigade with out mention ing that it was a communist front group.
Again the SPLC has done some good, but these two go overboard. For those that condemn Joe McCarthy for going overboard, they should do the same for these two.
Roger




>-----Original Message-----
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate group?
>From: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
>To: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
>Date: 01/17/13 08:56:34
>
>An example of blasting everyone on the right?
>
>-----Original Message----- 
>From: lfalen
>Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 10:15 AM
>To: Joe Campbell
>Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com ; rhayes at frontier.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate group?
>
>The Southern Poverty Law center is a mixed bag. They do do some good work. 
>Mark Potok and Morris Dees tend to take the shot gun approch and blast every 
>one on the right. Alan Dershowitz is much more careful.
>Roger
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate group?
>From: "Joe Campbell"
>To: lfalen
>Date: 01/16/13 20:22:48
>
>What is wrong with the Southern Poverty Law Center? Didn't they chase away 
>the Neo-Nazis up north? Joe
>
>On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 11:16 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>I would also like to thank Saundra for her research. I would hope that this 
>group never gets off the ground, we do not need them in this area. However 
>any group should have  the right to build and live in any voluntary manner 
>the chose. I would never want to live in one, but I would also support the 
>right of the Hutterites to build a commune here. As for the Sounthern 
>Poverty Law Center, I have a fair amount of respect for Alan Dershowitz, not 
>so much for Mark Potok,.
>Roger
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Subject: [Vision2020] Another hate group?
>From: rhayes at frontier.com
>To: "Saundra Lund"
>Date: 01/16/13 19:43:40
>
>Very good research "Saundra.Below is the quote and below that is the link 
>you asked for.While they don't yet seem to espouse the typical hate 
>rhetoric, I don't think they will be fun neighbors if the  dubious plan goes 
>forward. Mark Potok, a senior fellow at the Southern Poverty Law Center, 
>said he doubts the group is any bigger than one or two individuals looking 
>to win a following. He called it nothing more than an idle fantasy."We don't 
>know who's behind it, but the claim that there are several hundred people 
>involved is patently ludicrous," Potok said. "We're likely talking about a 
>man, a dog and his computer envisioning this whole imaginary city. We don't 
>take it that seriously."
>
>Read more: 
>http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/patriot-group-looks-to-create-armed-community-in-idaho-montana/article_3f4368e3-407c-590e-9263-594456826987.html#ixzz2IAHyZvCs
>  From: Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
>To: 'Sunil Ramalingam' <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>; keim153 at gmail.com
>Cc: 'vision 2020' <vision2020 at moscow.com>; rhayes at frontier.com
>Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 2:52 AM
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Another hate group
>
>At the risk of Paul again confusing discussion with hate . . . Roger (Falen) 
>wrote:"I do not know anything about this group, but how does anyone know 
>that they are a hate group?  A little bit wako probably, but not necessarily 
>a hate group."  I think the question is a good one, and I don't think we 
>know the answer to it.  After all, hate groups rarely (if ever) consider 
>themselves to be hate groups, you know J  And, what they say for public 
>consumption is often quite different than what they say amongst the inner 
>circle.  To back up a bit, I can't find anything where the SPLC has looked 
>at the Citadel and its separate but integral III Arms - Roger (Hayes), can 
>you provide a link?  The group clearly considers itself to be part of the 
>"Patriot" movement & reveres John Wesley, Rawls (yawn, one of those highly 
>paid anti-government doomsday/prepper/survivalist types) and his
>"American Redoubt."  Rawls, however, has recently disavowed any connection 
>to III Citadel, which I found hilarious, while failing to distance himself 
>from the weapons manufacture of III Arms Company, which is how this group 
>expects to fund the III Citadel.  They've supposedly purchased 20 acres (so 
>far) in the St. Maries area & plan on starting to build the III Arms factory 
>(the first phase) there in early-to-mid year.  At this point, I think their 
>weapons are still being custom-manufactured in WV . . . if they are actually 
>being made at all. And, in my book, the interesting thing about the III 
>Citadel is the III Arms Company - lots of right-wing extremists have 
>attempted to establish insular communities, but they typically fail, is 
>seems to me, because of the finances (as well as in-fighting, not to mention 
>not being able to play well with others, something the III Citadel/III Arms
>Company hasn't avoided).  III Arms Company is an attempt (or perhaps a scam) 
>to provide funding to make the III Citadel a reality (or a more profitable 
>scam). The whole thing makes me think of a bunch of silly role-playing 
>teenagers enamored with their interpretation of the Second Amendment trying 
>to form a doomsday utopia as an excuse for their hoarding tendencies & 
>expensive deadly toys. However, I find the psychology very interesting!  In 
>tough economic times, it's fascinating to me that anyone would turn over 
>$208 to "apply" to lease a "home" in a walled community that probably won't 
>exist anytime soon.  They estimate that the cost of that silly wall alone 
>will cost in the neighborhood of $25 million.  An examination of the stated 
>goals of the III Citadel community and associated costs aren't realistic, 
>financially or otherwise.  Reading the blogs of those involved shows -at
>best - a stunning ignorance of basics like sustainability, economics, legal 
>principles, weather in Benewah County, growing seasons, roads, 
>accessibility, etc.  But . . . it gets even better  J  III Arms claims that 
>it's a non-profit!  I kid you not  J 
>http://iiiarms.blogspot.com/2012/11/black-rifle-friday.html "And remember, 
>III Arms is not a for-profit company. All proceeds go to the Citadel 
>Project, to help build a bastion of Liberty for us all."  ROTFLOF!!!  But, 
>wait:  it gets even better  J  Has anyone besides me wondered why the III 
>Citadel is collecting money but doesn't have a spokesperson?  Curious, don't 
>you think?  Well, perhaps it's because the person behind the "firearms arms 
>required" III Citadel and initially behind III Arms Co. is a federally 
>convicted felon who apparently isn't even able to legally own a firearm  J 
>I kid you not!  I've been trying
>to track down rumors & facts for a couple of weeks now since Tom first 
>posted, and the earliest references I've been able to find originated with a 
>man apparently named Christian or Chris Kerodin, which may or may not be his 
>real name since he's a dude with a lot of apparent aliases, scams, and 
>blogs.  But, in reading his blogs, he definitely seems to be this 
>guy:http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/mar/26/20040326-124129-2670r/print/An 
>Alexandria, Va., man was sentenced yesterday in federal court to 30 months 
>in prison and fined $6,000 after he pleaded guilty in January to charges of 
>extortion and possessing an unregistered short-barreled rifle.U.S. Attorney 
>Paul J. McNulty in Alexandria said Christian Kerodin, 36, was sentenced by 
>U.S. District Judge Gerald Bruce Lee, who also ordered that the prison term 
>be followed by three years of supervised release.Mr. McNulty said Kerodin
>published a report on the Internet in May titled "Terrorist Target List: 
>American Retailers & Restaurants," which said shopping venues were likely to 
>be prime targets for terrorist attacks and billed himself as a security 
>expert.A month later, he said, Kerodin contacted officials at the Fashion 
>Centre at Pentagon City, Landmark Mall and Tysons Galleria, saying that a 
>new edition of his Internet report was due shortly and that if they 
>contracted with him for security assessments, he would not include their 
>names in the new report as needing security upgrades.The Fashion Centre is 
>owned by the Simon Property Group, and Landmark and Tysons Galleria are 
>owned by General Growth Properties Inc.Mr. McNulty said mall officials asked 
>Kerodin to provide the names of other clients for references or to supply 
>credentials for persons who worked for his company. He refused, saying he 
>did not need
>experience to be an expert in counterterrorism. None of the malls hired 
>him.In July, Kerodin published the report, which criticized several area 
>shopping malls for being vulnerable to terrorist attacks, specifically 
>criticizing the Fashion Centre, Landmark Mall and Tysons Galleria. Mr. 
>McNulty said Kerodin recontacted officials at Simon and General Growth by 
>letter and threatened to release similarly negative reports on 14 other 
>properties that the companies owned.An agent from the Department of Homeland 
>Security posing as a mall executive then contacted Kerodin, telling him the 
>malls had hired another security company and asking that they not be 
>included in additional reports. The agent also offered Kerodin $40,000 to be 
>left out of any new reports.Mr. McNulty said Kerodin rejected the offer and 
>demanded $122,500. He then was arrested."This defendant took advantage of 
>the heightened
>concern we all have to protect ourselves from terrorism. It is reprehensible 
>that someone would exploit that concern for personal gain," Mr. McNulty 
>said.Huh.  I guess their definition of "law-abiding" is quite a bit 
>different than is mine.  And, I feel soooo much better (not!) that it's his 
>wife Holly, rather than convicted felon Christian Kerodin himself, who is 
>listed with the Idaho Secretary of State as a "member or manager" of III 
>Arms Company, LLC:http://www.accessidaho.org/public/sos/corp/W116214.html I 
>highly recommend checking out (one of) Kerodin's blogs.  Here's a 
>sample:http://iiipercent.blogspot.com/2013/01/in-absence-of-orders-go-find-something.html 
>In the absence of orders, go find something evil and kill it.I borrowed the 
>title from WRSA.
>
>I think you will see this phrase again on this blog.
>
>If we are Citizen Soldiers, a Leaderless entity, or small groups of Patriots 
>who have installed a command structure among themselves, but otherwise 
>answer to no central command, then it is incumbant upon each of us to 
>shoulder our portion of the burden and act independantly.
>
>In the absence of orders, go find something evil and kill it.
>
>You'll know when. You already know who. You should know where they are in 
>your AO.
>
>You know what is Evil.
>
>You know what it is going to take to backfist the Tyrants out of our lives 
>for the next few generations. Fight to the knife, and knife to the hilt...
>
>Standing Orders: In the absence of orders, go find something evil and kill 
>it.
>
>Kerodin
>III Wow - that's just the kind of dude I want as an Idahoan!!!  Is that, and 
>a lot of other vitriol he's written, "hate"? Rather than recount a lot of 
>details, an article providing lots of interesting background was just 
>published:http://politicker.com/2013/01/meet-the-men-who-want-to-build-an-armed-castle-commune-for-patriots/James 
>L. Miller is many things, a motorcycle enthusiast, accused online scammer, 
>doomsday prepper, gunmaker and cat lover. Christian Kerodin also wears a 
>number of hats; he is an air conditioning repairman, blogger, author, 
>self-styled security consultant and convicted extortionist. Both men also 
>seem to be the masterminds behind a plan to build a massive, armed 
>survivalist compound in Idaho that has been making national 
>headlines.According to the website of the Citadel, it will be a "community 
>of 3,500 - 7,000 families of patriotic Americans who voluntarily
>choose to live together in accordance with Thomas Jefferson's ideal of 
>Rightful Liberty" and is being planned for Northern Idaho. Among other 
>things, the designs for the Citadel include a "perimeter defense" with 
>castle-style fortified walls and towers, an on-site gun factory, hotels, 
>schools, a "firearms museum," a "town militia," jail and farmer's market. As 
>of now, the community is planned for Benewah County in Northern Idaho. 
>Prospective residents of the Citadel are asked to submit to an application 
>process that includes agreeing to participate in the militia and pass 
>periodic proficiency tests with multiple types of firearms."Marxists, 
>Socialists, Liberals and Establishment Republicans will likely find that 
>life in our community is incompatible with their existing ideology and 
>preferred lifestyles," the website says.Though the Citadel website claims 
>the group has no "leader" and is
>the work of "scores of Liberty-loving individuals," it appears Mr. Miller 
>and Mr. Kerodin are two of the main forces behind the project. The roman 
>numeral in the community's name seems to be derived from "III Percent 
>Patriots," a blog operated by Mr. Kerodin where the early discussions were 
>held planning the Citadel's design and potential locations. An entry on Mr. 
>Kerodin's personal website describes the meaning of the term "III Percent 
>Patriots.""Historians consider that about 3 percent of Americans took arms 
>and challenged the King during the Revolution. 3 percent. III Percent. 
>Threepers. Patriots. We exist today," Mr. Kerodin wrote. "We are that 
>percentage of Americans who have the tools and mettle of the Militiaman who 
>stand and have drawn a hard line for the Hard Right of the political 
>spectrum."Along with his political activities, Mr. Kerodin has also worked 
>as a repairman for
>heating and air conditioning systems. In 2002, Mr. Kerodin started a 
>security consultancy. The following year, he printed an eight-page analysis 
>of terrorism weaknesses at shopping malls in the Washington D.C. area. 
>According to reports from the time, he subsequently contacted mall operators 
>in the area and told them they would be included in other similar analyses 
>if they did not hire him to conduct security assessments. A concerned 
>company contacted the Secret Service who had an undercover agent contact Mr. 
>Kerodin who allegedly agreed to keep the business out of his reports after 
>accepting a $120,000 check. He was arrested and indicted for an extortion 
>charge to which he plead guilty. Mr. Kerodin was sentenced to 30 months in 
>prison for the crime and an associated firearms charge. As a federal felon, 
>Mr. Kerodin cannot own a weapon, but on his website, he says he is 
>"exploring" legal
>avenues to "recover" his "firearms rights."In one of the Citadel planning 
>posts on Mr. Kerodin's blogs, a commenter using an online alias linked to 
>Mr. Miller, "Millerized," offers to bring his "firearm smithing" skills to 
>the community. "Millerized," is also one of the authors of the Citadel blog. 
>In addition to being his online alias, "Millerized" was also the name of a 
>company previously by Mr. Miller that originally made motorcycle parts. Last 
>October, Millerized began doing business as "III Arms." The III Arms website 
>describes it as a firearms company "dedicated to building first-class 
>fighting arms for the defense of Jefferson's Rightful Liberty." III Arms 
>will have a factory inside the Citadel's walls that is planned to be the 
>prime source of revenue and employment for the project's early residents. 
>Mr. Miller is identified on LinkedIn as the "president" of III Arms.In 
>addition
>to Mr. Miller's business activities, he has an extensive digital trail that 
>includes "Millerized's" participation in sites for self-described doomsday 
>"preppers" and survivalists. On one of these forums, Millerized describes 
>work done in his house where he has multiple cats. A web page tied to Mr. 
>Miller's name and address is also identified as having participated in 
>so-called "phishing" scams on a site dedicated to identifying these 
>fraudulent attempts to obtain personal information.As of this writing, 
>neither Mr. Miller or Mr. Kerodin have responded to multiple requests for 
>comment on this story. However, Mr. Miller seems to be enjoying the 
>attention the Citadel has recently received. A Facebook page that seems to 
>belong to Mr. Miller features pictures of customized military fatigues with 
>the III Arms logo and the words "Millerized" and "Patriot." It also includes 
>a picture of one of
>the Citadel's more prominent media mentions, a headline about the community 
>on the Drudge Report accompanied by the following caption from Mr. 
>Miller:"We are now huge."For those interested in learning more, remember 
>Google is your friend, but be prepared to shower frequently. What's that 
>saying?  Oh, yeah, "A fool and his money are soon parted." Personally, I 
>prefer to take the "scam" perspective because the alternative is enough to 
>chill the bones of any person with connected brain cells.  Saundra 
>LundMoscow, ID To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards out 
>of men.~ Abraham Lincoln   From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com 
>[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Sunil Ramalingam
>Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:50 PM
>To: keim153 at gmail.com
>Cc: vision 2020; rhayes at frontier.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate group  Darrell,
>
>I agree, though I have to add that someone posted about them last month; I 
>think it was Tom.
>
>SunilDate: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 21:28:26 -0800
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate group
>From: keim153 at gmail.com
>To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com; rhayes at frontier.com
>
>
>I am the original poster of this topic.  I never called it a hate group.  I 
>called them survivalists.  I think Roger Hayes changed the subject to a hate 
>tagline.  What say you, Roger?On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 9:22 PM, Sunil 
>Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:I'm with Roger on this. Maybe 
>they're complete nut jobs, but I don't know that they're a hate group.
>
>What is the evidence behind that claim?
>
>SunilDate: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 02:36:50 +0100
>To: thansen at moscow.com; keim153 at gmail.com
>From: lfalen at turbonet.com
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com; rhayes at frontier.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate groupI do not know anything about 
>this group, but how does anyone know that they are a hate group?  A little 
>bit wako probably, but not necessarily a hate group.Roger
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate group
>From: "Tom Hansen"
>To: "Darrell Keim"
>Date: 01/13/13 23:12:16How's this for "freedom""  My father was a POW in 
>Stalag Luft IIIA during the last year and a half of WW2.  I am convinced 
>that he experienced less isolation than the freedom-loving residents of the 
>Citadel.Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . . "Moscow 
>Cares"http://www.moscowcares.com/  Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho  "There's room at 
>the top they are telling you still    But first you must learn how to smile 
>as you kill
>If you want to be like the folks on the hill."    - John Lennon
>On Jan 13, 2013, at 1:43 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Goodie.  So it will be like Bo Gritz "Almost Heaven" near Kamiah. 
>Wonderful.On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 1:37 PM, rhayes at frontier.com 
><rhayes at frontier.com> wrote: The Southern Poverty Law Center has dismissed 
>this "group" as a couple of guys with a computer who are trying to drum up a 
>following and bilk those who take the bait of cash.
>
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