[Vision2020] Debate tonight

Wed Feb 27 13:37:54 PST 2013

Hi Daniel,

Actually I am a bit under the weather today, and I’m not sure my headache would improve after an evening with Doug and the boys,  but it is my hope that you might consider carrying my question forward to me and asking it for me.  

“Why are you (meaning Doug Wilson) fixated on homosexuality?  There are many  acts/moral failings/crimes that are common not only to your faith community but in our larger community as well.   Pedophilia, alcohol abuse, domestic violence, adultery, thievery, hypocrisy, and pride all spring instantly to mind.  These are topics that Jesus addressed frequently.  However, he never addressed homosexuality. I would be the last person to equate Jesus with you (Doug) and to your credit so would you) but given the pressing problems mentioned above, I wonder why you (Doug) seem hooked on the topic of sexual orientation?  You sneering and hateful use of pejorative terms – I won’t repeat them - causes me to wonder about the source of your interest.   What’s the deal?  How ‘bout a  Campus program with an agenda of imploring your audience to treat all GLBT people with respect and kindness instead of sneering nastiness?  Will you agree to stop using Beavis and Butthead offensive, childish terms when talking about sexual orientation?”

And, secondarily:  Have you been advising CJ Mahaney and the crackpots at Sovereign Grace Ministry <http://thewartburgwatch.com/2013/02/26/breaking-news-sgm-flings-it-an-attempt-to-get-a-dismissal/>  on how to spin their way out of charges that they protect pedophiles?  It sure looks like it.

As Ever,

Rose Huskey

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Foucachon
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 11:49 AM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Debate tonight

I hope some of you are planning on attending the debate tonight between Andrew Sullivan and Doug Wilson. Peter Hitchens (brother of the late Christopher Hitchens) is moderating.

7:30 at SUB. There will be a 45 min public QA, and with two lines: 1 for questions for Doug Wilson, one for Andrew Sullivan. I specify this because someone (I think Tom Hansen) was sure that the QA would somehow be rigged. Come, bring your questions!

Topic: Is Homosexual Marriage Good for Society? 

Promo video: http://youtu.be/aui5APspcI8

-Daniel

Sent from iPhone 

On Feb 27, 2013, at 11:39, vision2020-request at moscow.com wrote:

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Wayne Krauss (Saundra Lund)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:39:22 -0800
From: "Saundra Lund" <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
To: "'Darrell Keim'" <keim153 at gmail.com>, "'Art Deco'"
   <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wayne Krauss
Message-ID: <015801ce1522$2540fb10$6fc2f130$@ssl1.fastmail.fm>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Sorry, Darrell - we're going to have to agree to disagree about this.  About
a month ago, I did a relatively in-depth critique of Krauss' inane comments
about what's wrong in America, and in that critique, I pointed out that I'd
attended a forum some years back when Krauss asked intelligent comments &
offered intelligent responses.  Unfortunately, that's behavior I've not seen
from Krauss in quite a few years now.

You wrote:

"I agree with the sentiment he attempted to express.  Why can't we work with
the simple rule already expressed in our countries founding document: treat
others with basic dignity and decency. "

The answer to that question seems pretty clear to me:  it's because the dogs
Krauss & his pals have chosen to lie down with don't believe in treating
people equally.  You know the type:  those who think that their
interpretation of the Bible allows them to condemn the LGBTQ community - and
many other groups -- and deny them equal protection under the law. Those who
don't support marriage equality and gender equality and equal pay for equal
work.  Those who think that the government have no business regulating
weapons but has every right to stick their prurient noses into the
Constitutionally guaranteed reproductive choices of women.

I have no idea what Krauss' views are on those issues, but the fact remains
that when Krauss voluntarily choose to ally with people who are against
those Constitutional protections, and then he makes stupid comments (I
watched the videos Tom posted, so I'm quite aware of the context, which
isn't quite as bad as the DN article, but still isn't good by any stretch),
the push-back is more than deserved.

Saundra

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Darrell Keim
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 11:04 AM
To: Art Deco
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wayne Krauss

I happened to sit next to Wayne yesterday when someone asked him to explain
his remarks.  He elaborated that his point was that we shouldn't need to
have special protections for different groups.  We should hold ourselves to
the standard of treating all people equally, which our Constitution already
guarantees.  

While his quote in the paper makes him sound like an idiot (reporters have a
way of doing this-context is SO important), I agree with the sentiment he
attempted to express.  Why can't we work with the simple rule already
expressed in our countries founding document: treat others with basic
dignity and decency.  The guy is not nearly the troglodyte he is being made
out to be.

On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
wrote:

Aside from its gross insensitivity and ignorance the remarks provide a
revelation about Krauss's personal feelings and the lack of comment implying
consent by the other semi-conscious officials present, this is part of a
longer saga.

There is hardly a month that has gone by since he took office and made a
fool of himself starting with his participation and remarks in the Hawkins
scandal, that Wayne Krauss hasn't provided ample evidence of the long
circulating characterization of him that as the former manager of the
Goodyear store he was hit in the head too hard and too many times with a
tire iron.

w.

On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
wrote:

What a horse's rear end Krauss continues to show himself to be.  Disgusting.

Here's the article Roger Hayes referred to:

Antidiscrimination ordinance vetted by committee

By Brandon Macz, Daily News staff writer | Posted: Tuesday, February 26,
2013 12:00 am 

Considering an ordinance to make housing and job discrimination based on
sexual orientation or gender identity a criminal offense in Moscow,
Councilor Wayne Krauss asked City Attorney Randy Fife where demands for more
protections would end.

Krauss asked rhetorically whether someone bringing monkeys into a business
and being refused service would require a discrimination ordinance for
monkey owners. 

Fife laid out for the Administrative Committee on Monday details of his
draft ordinance. Under the ordinance, an employer would not be allowed to
refuse to hire or fire a person for their sexual orientation or gender
identity, or to deny an employee advancement or training on that same basis.
It would also prevent businesses from refusing to serve a person based on
their sexual orientation or gender identity.

On the housing side, refusal to sell, buy or rent property or to repair,
maintain or improve it would also be prohibited if it were the result of
such discrimination, Fife said.

Exceptions include religious entities, other governments and agencies,
boarding houses, private clubs or institutions and two-family dwellings,
such as duplexes, where the property owner or a relative lives in one of the
units.

Krauss was curious about whether businesses, such as restaurants, which
often display signs indicating their right to refuse service to anyone,
could refuse to serve someone based on their sexual orientation or gender
identity without disclosing that as the reason. Fife said if someone felt
that was the reason for denial of service, they could file a complaint under
the ordinance.

"I hate any kind of bullying whatsoever, and discrimination is a form of
bullying, in my mind," Krauss said.

Krauss said he didn't like the idea of the city being forced to react to a
continuous list of discriminatory grievances.

"The question is, where does it stop?" Krauss said. "Why doesn't the 14th
Amendment cover the whole darn thing?"

The amendment says "No State shall deny to any person within its
jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Fife said he prepared the draft after reviewing laws already on the books in
Sandpoint, Boise and Salt Lake City and said he favored Boise's. The
proposed ordinance would fill a gap in the federal and state human rights
acts.

Anyone believing themselves to be discriminated against because of their
sexual orientation or gender identity would file a report with the Moscow
Police Department, Fife said, which would conduct an investigation and file
a report with the city prosecutor to validate whether the claim constitutes
an offense under the ordinance.

If so, mediation would be attempted between the two parties by the city
attorney with the offender facing a misdemeanor if a resolution can't be
met. If the defendant takes remediation steps, the penalty could be reduced
to an infraction. Should both parties settle, the charge would be dismissed.

"You want compliance, not punishment. That's the goal," Fife said, adding
the criminal process might do better in a separate council resolution.

Fife said pushes on the municipal level could force the issue in the Idaho
Legislature, which has historically never passed an amendment to its human
rights act covering sexual orientation and gender identity out of committee.

"That's not going to happen, so we'll continue to legislate morality,"
Krauss said.

The draft ordinance will be reviewed by the city's Fair and Affordable
Housing and Human Rights commissions before returning to the Administrative
Committee to forward the draft to the full council.

More Well No. 9 problems

Public Works Director Les MacDonald reported the recently reinstalled Well
No. 9 pump and motor have to be removed again after testing Friday knocked
out power to the well house. Once power was restored, a ground fault was
detected, which means something is short-circuiting the electricity being
channeled through the pump and motor, he said.

"It means we're in a different situation than before," MacDonald said.

The pump was shut down in June when it stopped functioning and the motor was
sent to be repaired by Alstra Technologies in Tempe, Ariz. It was
reinstalled in late September, but was shut down again when the electric
current became too high and caused the protection unit to shut it down. The
motor was returned to Alstra and the pump was analyzed by a Spokane company
before both were tested by another manufacturer in Arizona.

The pump and motor were reinstalled in two weeks ago, but further testing in
Moscow showed the electric current was still too high and a "whale song"
noise occurred when it was reconnected to the system, MacDonald said.
Following Friday's outage, he said removal of the pump and motor by crane
began Monday and should be completed today. He added an outside consultant
may need to be brought in to determine the city's next move. Well No. 9 can
produce up to 40 percent of the city's water.

 _____  

Brandon Macz can be reached at (208) 882-5561, ext. 238
<tel:%28208%29%20882-5561%2C%20ext.%20238> , or by email to bmacz at dnews.com.

And, here's the letter to the editor Roger also referred to:

Basic human rights

Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:00 am 

Moscow City Councilor Wayne Krauss has implied that refusing service to
monkey owners in a business setting is the same as denying fair housing and
job rights to residents based on their sexual orientation or gender
identity.

As reported by Brandon Macz in "Antidiscrimination ordinance vetted," (Daily
News, Feb. 26): "Krauss asked rhetorically whether someone bringing monkeys
into a business and being refused service would require a discrimination
ordinance for monkey owners."

You must be logged in with the proper services to print this article. 

Think about what he is really saying.

Also, according to Macz, Krauss questions "legislating morality." Yet Krauss
is forcing his own "morality" on public legislation, denying basic human
rights to a sector of the population that he is being paid to serve.

Please, Krauss, apologize for what you said and rethink your stance.

Lisa Kliger

Moscow

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Rosemary Huskey
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:50 AM
To: rhayes at frontier.com; 'Moscow Vision 2020'
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wayne Krauss

I am gobsmacked about Wayne Krauss' remarks.  Where did he make them?  Thank
you for letting 2020 readers know.

Rose Huskey

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of rhayes at frontier.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:47 AM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Wayne Krauss

And yesterday Wayne Krauss was quoted that offering equal protection to all
citizens including that of sexual identity and orientation to bringing
monkeys to a restaurant and demanding service. 

In this case crackpot... and a sad reflection on our city council. 

For those with short memories:

On a scale of 0 to 10 where 10 is the easiest to be hornswoggled Carscalen
and Krauss are clearly 10s based on how Hawkins and Mr. Slime Steed (acting
in the conflicting roles of city council person and *defacto* agent of his
longtime associates Hawkins) hornswoggled the council into the sweetheart
deal with the now never to be Hawkins mall against the fundamental
interests of Idaho citizens.

How do you choose a GOP leader? From the crackpots or the corrupt?

w.

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Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
art.deco.studios at gmail.com

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