[Vision2020] Hmmm . . .

Thu Feb 21 10:55:25 PST 2013

Part of this problem is to make sure of what you are shooting at.  Do not shoot at a noise. In the case of the college student the bare minimun that should have been done would have been to call 911.
Roger

-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Hmmm . . .
From: "Nicholas Gier" 
To: "Gary Crabtree" 
Date: 02/20/13 23:45:28

Hi "G":

I read recently about a guy who did just what you advise and shot an intruder.  It turned out that it was his uninvited brother.

Ooooops!

Nick

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Gary Crabtree <moscowlocksmith at gmail.com> wrote:

The problem does not seem at all insurmountable.

Problem, person(s) force entry to ones home without invitation.

Solution. Point weapon in general direction of intruder and request (insist) they leave.

Outcome. They comply or they do not.

Compliance equals positive resolution to problem.

Noncompliance results in negative outcome for intruder.

The real problem stems from not having the proper tools to affect the desired outcome.

g

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 10:47 AM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:

The problem of dealing with intruders involves sometimes a dangerous lack of information.

Is the intruder armed?

Is there more than one?

What are the intentions of of the intruder?

Who is the intruder?  Is she/he someone known?  What is the relevant history of the intruder?

Are there effective/non-lethal ways of neutralizing the intruder?

How can those intruded upon calculate the the risk to themselves, and decide upon the action to be taken?

w.

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:

These are empirically claims. Could be that pulling out a gun increases your risk. It depends on a lot of factors.

The big question is: does the potential for help outweigh the risk of harm?

And I hate to tell you that in a region with a low incidence of gun violence, the answer is 'No.' Paul's weapons are more likely to cause him harm than they are to protect him.

On Feb 20, 2013, at 8:05 AM, Gary Crabtree <moscowlocksmith at gmail.com> wrote:

Once "he" becomes aware of said gun it becomes a powerful deterrent to staying in your house much less helping himself to your belongings or continued good health.

g

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 6:56 AM, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:

This is what listening to pop music can do to you! 

Paul: If he's in your house, then the gun was not a deterrent.

On Feb 20, 2013, at 6:12 AM, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:

But not in a judgmental way. I'm too busy singing to put anybody down.

sr

From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Hmmm . . .
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 06:02:11 -0800

Now you're just monkeeing around.

g

From: Sunil Ramalingam 
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 11:07 PM
Cc: vision 2020 
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Hmmm . . .

The premise of your post was that he was breaking into homes when people were there. Now you're inventing his motive to kill you. No, if he saw your face, he'd be a believer, not a killer.

Sunil

Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 22:56:57 -0800
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Hmmm . . .

It didn't say he was.  If he did, though, I'd want to be able to protect myself if he ran across me in a home he thought was empty and he got it through his head that I had to die because I'd seen his face.  Or maybe he's desperate, and now he's willing to try hitting a house that is occupied but looks like he could rob it regardless.

It's a tool of preparedness.  I'd rather not assume that he's harmless if he's breaking into houses and robbing them.  If my assumption is wrong, I could die.  I'd rather not throw away my chance at survival because "OMG!  Guns are bad!"

It doesn't mean, by the way, that I'd just shoot this guy for breaking into my house.  But a loaded weapon is a good deterrent, and if it turns out my life is at stake, I'd rather have a gun than a shoe I could throw at him, or whatever I happened to have at hand.

This isn't rocket science.  Be prepared.  It's the good old Boy Scout motto.   I also have a smoke detector and a fire extinguisher.

Don't let the "guns are killing our kids!" narrative drive your views.

Paul

On 02/19/2013 10:43 PM, Sunil Ramalingam wrote:

Paul,

Where does it say he's breaking into homes when people are in? I had a lot of burglary cases, and my mistakenly charged clients were usually alleged to have entered homes when no one was there. Lots easier to leave with stuff that way, said the authorities.

Sunil

Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:02:25 -0800
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To: thansen at moscow.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Hmmm . . .

What's paranoid about locking up when you're out and being ready to defend yourself when you're at home when there is a known burglar in the area?  Being prepared is not the same thing as being paranoid.  If someone is crazy enough to break into your home while you are there, you can go ahead and classify that as a situation fraught with danger, in which case having some means to protect yourself might be called for.  There are plenty of reasonable scenarios where a would-be burglar happens upon a member of the household when he thought the place was empty that could end up very badly for the person he stumbled upon.  If the burglar knew you were at home and invaded the home anyway, then you've definitely got a problem if you are happily unarmed.

Better to have that gun when you need it than not.  If guns frighten you, which I find hard to believe because of your military background, then at least pick up a good aluminum baseball bat.

Do you think I'm paranoid because I keep a set of jumper cables in my trunk in case my battery dies and I need a jump from a kind stranger?  Are you one of those people that joyously flit from situation to situation relying on the gods to keep you out of trouble?

Paul

On 02/19/2013 01:18 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:

<ATT00001>

Paranoia . . . self-destroya.

Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares"
http://www.MoscowCares.com

Tom "Proud to be a Filthy Liberal Scum" Hansen
Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still  
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill 
If you want to be like the folks on the hill." 

- John Lennon

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======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================

======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.               http://www.fsr.net          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com=======================================================

=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
              http://www.fsr.net
         mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
======================================================= 

=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

--
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
art.deco.studios at gmail.com

=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
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=======================================================

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