[Vision2020] gun violence in America
rhayes at frontier.com
rhayes at frontier.com
Mon Feb 4 11:02:25 PST 2013
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/12/looking-for-lessons-in-newtown/
Please take a moment to read what David Hemmingway says about gun violence and public health.
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Sent: Monday, February 4, 2013 9:51 AM
Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 80, Issue 50
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Today's Topics:
1. City of Moscow City Attorney Resigns (Stephanie Kalasz)
2. Re: Gun Talk (Paul Rumelhart)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 17:14:00 +0000
From: Stephanie Kalasz <skalasz at ci.moscow.id.us>
To: "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: [Vision2020] City of Moscow City Attorney Resigns
Message-ID:
<739BF695C0DEE84E8DEDA0ECA5F1B74C66CCDEF0 at Mail2.CI.MOSCOW.ID.US>
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City of Moscow
206 E Third Street
Moscow, ID 83843
Contact: Gary J. Riedner, City Supervisor
p | 208.883.7006
e | griedner at ci.moscow.id.us<mailto:griedner at ci.moscow.id.us>
w | www.ci.moscow.id.us<http://www.ci.moscow.id.us/>
PRESS RELEASE
City of Moscow City Attorney Resigns
February 4, 2013 (Moscow, Idaho) - City of Moscow, City Attorney Randy Fife has submitted his resignation following his acceptance of the City Attorney position with the City of Idaho Falls. Fife's resignation will be effective March 15, and will begin in Idaho Falls on April 1.
Fife has served the City of Moscow for 16 years. He has represented the City well during his tenure and he will be missed. The search for a replacement City Attorney will begin right away.
For more information, please contact Gary Riedner, City Supervisor at 208.883.7006 or by email at griedner at ci.moscow.id.us<mailto:griedner at ci.moscow.id.us>.
###
Story Contact: Gary Riedner, City Supervisor
Phone: 208.883.7006
Email: griedner at ci.moscow.id.us<mailto:griedner at ci.moscow.id.us>
The City of Moscow delivers quality municipal services while ensuring responsible use of resources.
We anticipate and meet the needs of our diverse population in order to build public trust and enhance a sense of community.
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 09:51:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
To: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
Cc: "<vision2020 at moscow.com>" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Gun Talk
Message-ID:
<1360000291.41254.YahooMailNeo at web163605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
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Just think what an evil person could do with a potato peeler and a bottle of hydrogen peroxide!? Are we just going to sit around until it happens?!
What is it with this new push for pre-crime laws?? It's even worse than laws against thought crime, because at least then someone is at least *considering* doing something bad.
Just take a deep breath, people.? Crime rates have been dropping since the early 90's, including homicide rates and violent crime rates.? Your children are as safe now as they've ever been.
Paul
________________________________
From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
Cc: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>; "<vision2020 at moscow.com>" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2013 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Gun Talk
You're right, Mr. Rumelhart. ?Dead right!
Why be proactive and assume the moral high ground now, right? ?There'll be time for that after the next six-year-old is killed by an assault rifle . . . or the one after that?. . . or the one after that?. . . or the one after that?. . . or the one after that . . .
As long as you boys at the sandbox can brag about the size of your guns at the next Show-n-Tell, right?
Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares"
http://www.moscowcares.com/
??
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still?But first you must learn how to smile as you kill?
If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon
?
On Feb 4, 2013, at 8:57 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>I do tend to follow the "innocent until proven guilty" and
"assumed innocent especially when nobody has done anything, yet"
schools of thought.? You may have the makings of a bomb in your
house right now, cleverly hidden away in otherwise innocent
household items.? If someone gets a warrant and enters a residence
and it contains bomb-making equipment and it's all laid out ready
to be made into a bomb, that's one thing.? It makes sense that
certain items be restricted, too, but if you want to make a bomb
you don't need exotic materials.? Read through the Anarchist's
Cookbook sometime.? I don't suggest trying anything in there,
though, you'd probably lose a limb or something.
>
>I don't feel like defending the U.S's War on Drugs at this point
in time.
>
>As for your point about you saying something that MIGHT harm my
reputation, you can say anything you like as long as you are
prepared to face the consequences if I take you to court.? What's
the alternative?? Muzzle you?
>
>Paul
>
>On 02/04/2013 08:23 AM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>
>What do you say about drugs? It is OK to have them in your possession, you just can't use them. Is that your view? Do you think it is fine to have all the makings for an Oklahoma-type bomb, or all the ingredients for large batches of methamphetamine, so long as you don't mix them together? Can I say lies that MIGHT harm your reputation and wait and see if it actually does harm it before you'll want to step in with sanctions?
>>
>>I think I've made my point, and really Art made the main point.
Busy week!
>>
>>
>>On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>If the point were potential of harm, then the argument
that the assault weapons ban is a ban on "military
looking" weapons as opposed to "militarily useful" ones
would gain more traction.?
>>>
>>>This is probably because the real "assault rifles"
actually are banned, the fully-automatic ones.? At least,
those made since 1986 unless you are the police, the
military, or a government agency.
>>>
>>>By the way, does anyone know if there have been any
challenges to that legislation (the Firearm Owners
Protection Act of 1986) that have gone before the Supreme
Court?
>>>
>>>Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>On 02/03/2013 03:33 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>>>
>>>The point is potential of harm
>>>>
>>>>On Feb 3, 2013, at 3:09 PM, "Gary Crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You continue to conflate outcomes with the equipment by which they are brought about.
>>>>>?
>>>>>Child porn is illegal,?photographic equipment?is not.
>>>>>?
>>>>>Shooting people is illegal, owning?semi automatic firearms?is not. (and should remain that way)
>>>>>?
>>>>>g
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>From: Joe Campbell
>>>>>Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2013 2:56 PM
>>>>>To: Gary Crabtree
>>>>>Cc: Paul Rumelhart ; vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Gun Talk
>>>>>
>>>>>
We do in fact ban TYPES of print: child pornography, for instance. We ban types of speech, as well. That is different from banning types of guns exactly how?
>>>>>
>>>>>Again, I'm not advocating any specific ban. Just
that it is absurd to claim as you claim, as Paul
claims, and as the NRA claims, that the 2nd
amendment should be understood as prohibiting the
banning of guns altogether.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Gary Crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>You keep making apples to oranges comparisons.
>>>>>>?
>>>>>>In a effort to deter that which is undesirable (yelling fire in a crowded movie theater; libel; slander; child pornography) we punish the occurrences. We do not try to take away the means by banning magazines, (six words or greater) newspapers, internet, photography, or surgical removal of?the tongue.
>>>>>>?
>>>>>>g
>>>>>>?
>>>>>>?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>From: Joe Campbell
>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2013 12:41 PM
>>>>>>To: Paul Rumelhart
>>>>>>Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Gun Talk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Paul wrote: How is my interpretation of the Second Amendment in any way "radical"?? "Radical?"? Really?? "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."? How is a government ban on a complete class of guns (based almost solely on how military they look) not an infringement of my right to keep and bear arms?? Doesn't it stop me from buying an AR15, for example, not based on market forces or recalls based on safety or popularity, but because the government told me I can't own one?? Doesn't that infringe on my right to keep and bear arms, if only by restricting what I can keep and bear?? I don't see how this is "radical".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>All rights may be infringed. Sorry. I don't want to try to figure out the founding fathers meant -- likely, the right to ban what we call "arms" cannot be infringed, which is reasonable -- but the idea that there are NO restrictions on (what we now think of as) gun sales is crazy. You can restrict speech so you sure as heck can restrict gun sales. Any view that says that we can do X under ANY circumstances provided X is listed in the Bill of Rights is a radical view.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Show me ONE other right that you think
"shall not be infringed" in the way that
you supposed gun rights shall not be
infringed? Again, it is confusing. I
would argue that circumstances in which
your speech or expression may be
restricted (yelling fire in a crowded
movie theater; libel; slander; child
pornography) is precisely the point at
which your rights end. Again, I have a
hard time saying the government is
violating your right to free expression
because it prohibits you from slandering
Gary Crabtree. You NEVER had that
"right." You have the right to speech
freely ... up to a point. That is just
how rights work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>But of course I've already made this
point!
>>>>>>
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