[Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Sun Aug 25 19:49:27 PDT 2013
Christ on a crutch, sorry if I offended everyone by my use of the word
"fuck".
But since everyone's sensibilities are fragile around here, let me
reword my last statement to say "In a perfect world, he would be able to
do as he fancies, the good God be willing."
Also, you can't throw a cat around here without hitting another list
member trying to psychoanalyze me. The phrase "whatever the fuck he
wants" is a common phrase used when describing what it is a Free Man
(tm) can do.
The entire genesis of this thread lets us know right of the bat that we
don't live in that perfect world.
Paul
On 08/25/2013 06:18 PM, Rosemary Huskey wrote:
>
> Well, Paul, no one on earth likes strong Anglo Saxon words more than I
> do -- but in your case, the undisguised rage in your last sentence
> seems to indicate an anger management issue that might is way out of
> proportion to the subject at hand and the general tone of the
> conversation. Take a deep breath and a walk around the block. It's
> summertime and the living is easy . . . . or something like that.
>
> Rose Huskey
>
> *From:*vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul Rumelhart
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 25, 2013 3:37 PM
> *To:* Scott Dredge
> *Cc:* viz
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory
>
>
> Bullshit. He was buying a home defense weapon. If there were death
> threats against me and mine, I would do the same. Besides, he was
> found not guilty. In a perfect world, he could whatever the fuck he
> wanted.
>
> Paul
>
> On 08/25/2013 02:53 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:
>
> Based on photographic evidence, audio evidence, the measurable
> timeline, GZ's medical report, TM's autopsy report combined with
> corroborating witness testimony, it's difficult to draw any
> conclusion other than TM being on top of GZ and hitting him for at
> least 45 seconds prior to the fatal and only shot. GZ shouldn't
> have followed TM and should have stayed in his truck. TM
> shouldn't have attacked him. But TM did what he did and GZ did
> what he did, so here we are.
>
> This whole thing has already spun as a 'perfect storm'. And if GZ
> is going to do things like tour a Kel Tec factory, pose for photo
> ops, and let it be known he's interested in acquiring more fire
> power, he's putting himself, his family, and anyone around him in
> danger. His actions are tantamount to 'bring it on' taunting.
> Don't be surprised if someone takes the bait resulting in more
> tragedy. Don't be surprised if GZ blasts someone innocent that he
> mistakenly believes was coming after him. Don't be surprised when
> there is another dead body and GZ claims 'self defense'.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> To: godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>;
> philosopher.joe at gmail.com <mailto:philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 13:11:03 -0700
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory
>
> He wasn't 'going out to call the police on criminal activity.' He
> could have called them from his home and stayed there. Why do you
> even saying that?
>
> He was out and about because he wanted to play the cop, and he had
> a gun. He could have stayed home with his gun, like he was told to
> do.
>
> You keep assuming his defense theory is true. It was effective, it
> led to the verdict, but that doesn't make it true.
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 11:55:13 -0700
> From: godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
> To: philosopher.joe at gmail.com <mailto:philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory
>
> Do you think that neighborhood watch programs are a bad thing? If
> you can posit for a moment that guns can come in handy for
> self-defense, then going out to call the police on criminal
> activity might be a time when you have a better chance of needing
> to protect yourself than when you are, say, just going to get
> groceries.
>
> If you think it wasn't self-defense, then why was Zimmerman doing
> his best to lead the cops to the encounter? Why were there no
> injuries on Martin consistent with an initial attack by
> Zimmerman? Do you think he shot him first? Then why did
> witnesses see them on the ground fighting? To me, it just doesn't
> add up.
>
> Paul
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> <mailto:philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> *To:* Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
> <mailto:scooterd408 at hotmail.com>; viz <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:26 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory
>
> "... he thought he was going to die and defended himself." First,
> the only evidence you have for this is that Zimmerman said it was
> so. There were no witnesses to corroborate this. We don't know
> what happened. My interpretation of the results of the trial is
> that there was no reason to disbelieve Zimmerman, so no reason to
> find him guilty. That does not mean that we should believe him.
> There is no reason to believe him either. The fact is we don't
> know what happened in those moments prior to the shooting.
>
> Second, Zimmerman was out looking for "criminals" like some
> want-a-be cop, stalked a suspected criminal who turned out to be a
> boy, called to report it and was advised to stop but didn't do so,
> got out of his car to follow the "suspect," then (supposedly) shot
> the boy because he feared for his life.
>
> I'm sorry but if you are not a cop and you leave your house with a
> gun pretending to "protect" your neighborhood, my sympathy level
> will drop dramatically should something go wrong.
>
> Zimmerman's actions do not sound like self-defense to me. I am not
> warped by the mainstream media. In fact, I think this is just
> another example of how fear and guns together are more likely to
> lead to a bad outcome than a good one. Incidents like this are
> precisely why we need gun control. Some people are just not smart
> enough to know how to use guns with the required safety and care.
> The Zimmerman case proves that.
>
> And saying that folks are dupes just because they happen to share
> some of the views of the mainstream media is no different from
> saying that you are a racist just because you happen to share some
> of the views of racists.
>
> On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Paul Rumelhart
> <godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>
> I'm not supporting Zimmerman. I'm just dismayed by the attitudes
> people have towards him based on nothing but wishful thinking, as
> far as I can see. These attitudes are shared across the country,
> and is making life for this man dangerous. All because he thought
> he was going to die and defended himself. His bad luck that he did
> so at a time when guns are the new boogieman, and that his
> attacker didn't have the common sense to be a white male.
>
> It's really how quickly and absolutely this narrative I keep
> talking about solidified that scares the ever-living crap out of
> me. It means the main stream media is still king, and that your
> average American still just soaks it right up apparently uncritically.
>
> Oh, and I don't plan to shut up, thank you anyway.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> On 08/25/2013 08:39 AM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>
> Of course I don't condone the bounty, or death threats. It is
> still a mystery to me why you keep condoning Zimmerman. If you
> want folks to stop talking about him, why don't you start us
> off? Really, I only post on that guy when you or others try to
> defend him, or act shocked about the public outrage.
> Otherwise, I don't really think about him much.
>
> On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 8:30 AM, Paul Rumelhart
> <godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>
> You're right. He should look properly chastened at all times
> so as not to offend people like yourself. I bet he was
> laughing at a joke! The bastard.
>
> I will admit that if he was thinking in terms of PR, then
> staging a photoshoot at a gun store was not the brightest
> move. I suspect, though, that he can't move three feet in
> public without some self-righteous a-hole tracking his every
> move and taking his picture. It won't last long, though.
> They'll get him in civil court soon where the threshold for
> evidence is not so high.
>
> While we're on the subject, does anyone out there in viz-land
> condone the bounty put on him by the New Black Panther Party?
> Does anyone condemn it? How about the multiple death threats
> he and his family have been getting? I normally wouldn't ask
> this, but the reactions here to this case have so disappointed
> me that I just have to.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> On 08/24/2013 10:16 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:
>
> I think it's STUPID of Zimmerman to be cheesing it up for
> photos while touring a gun factory. I was seeing shades
> that idiot president of CA fish and game who bagged a
> mountain lion in Idaho and went on the cover of some
> magazine beaming while holding the dead carcass.
>
> FWIW - I disagree that Zimmerman was hunting Martin, but
> nonetheless he did fatally shoot him and this type of
> behavior is quite the opposite of being remorseful. But
> hey, if he wants to stay around Florida and make himself
> visible while there's a bounty on his head, that's
> certainly his choice and likely another bad choice in a
> growing list.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> CC: scooterd408 at hotmail.com
> <mailto:scooterd408 at hotmail.com>; vision2020 at moscow.com
> <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> From: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> <mailto:philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory
> Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:30:05 -0700
> To: godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
>
> I said it was closer to hunting than self defense. It was.
> And Martin was a kid; Zimmerman was not. And Martin is
> dead. Maybe that is why no one is blaming him.
>
> Did Martin make a mistake? Apparently -- but really we
> don't know that any more than we know why Zimmerman did
> what he did. But Martin paid a hefty price for his
> mistake. Zimmerman did not. That's why folks are upset.
>
>
> On Aug 24, 2013, at 6:20 PM, Paul Rumelhart
> <godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>
> That's the narrative I'm talking about. It completely
> ignores Trayvon Martin's own actions that helped lead
> to his death and it exaggerates George Zimmerman's
> actions. Following someone down a sidewalk is not the
> same as "hunting" a person. We have exactly zero
> evidence that Zimmerman followed Martin in order to
> kill him.
>
> But have fun with the narrative. If you happen across
> Zimmerman, get in a few licks for the rest of us.
>
> Paul
>
> On 08/24/2013 05:44 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>
> Goes against the narrative? The guy stalked a kid,
> against the advice of a 911 operator, and ended up
> killing him.
>
> Honestly, I just don't get it. Stalking and
> shooting is a lot closer to hunting than
> self-defense. Why is that so difficult for you to see?
>
>
> On Aug 24, 2013, at 5:11 PM, Paul Rumelhart
> <godshatter at yahoo.com
> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Well, he and his family do get death threats
> regularly:
> http://globalgrind.com/2013/08/03/robert-zimmerman-reveals-family-400-death-threats-per-minute-starbucks-employee-george-trayvon-martin-details/
>
> And there is a $10,000 bounty put on Zimmerman
> for his capture by the New Black Panther
> Party:
> http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/07/19/Black-Panthers-2012-video-for-Zimmerman-bounty-resurfaces/3711374236844/
>
> So maybe he is in need of a good home-defense
> weapon.
>
> Of course, progressives are not allowed to
> feel bad about that because it goes against
> the narrative. Pity, one could almost feel bad
> for a guy who is reviled on the national stage
> for protecting himself from getting his ass
> beat, whether or not it was his own stupidity
> that got him there.
>
> Oh, well. It's much easier to think of him as
> a monster.
>
> Paul
>
> On 08/24/2013 03:29 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:
>
> http://www.mediaite.com/online/george-zimmerman-went-gun-shopping-today/
>
>
>
>
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