Amazing.
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 15:36:39 -0700
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com
CC: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com; philosopher.joe at gmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory
Bullshit. He was buying a home defense weapon. If there were
death threats against me and mine, I would do the same. Besides,
he was found not guilty. In a perfect world, he could whatever
the fuck he wanted.
Paul
On 08/25/2013 02:53 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:
Based on photographic evidence, audio evidence, the
measurable timeline, GZ's medical report, TM's autopsy report
combined with corroborating witness testimony, it's difficult to
draw any conclusion other than TM being on top of GZ and hitting
him for at least 45 seconds prior to the fatal and only shot.
GZ shouldn't have followed TM and should have stayed in his
truck. TM shouldn't have attacked him. But TM did what he did
and GZ did what he did, so here we are.
This whole thing has already spun as a 'perfect storm'. And if
GZ is going to do things like tour a Kel Tec factory, pose for
photo ops, and let it be known he's interested in acquiring more
fire power, he's putting himself, his family, and anyone around
him in danger. His actions are tantamount to 'bring it on'
taunting. Don't be surprised if someone takes the bait
resulting in more tragedy. Don't be surprised if GZ blasts
someone innocent that he mistakenly believes was coming after
him. Don't be surprised when there is another dead body and GZ
claims 'self defense'.
From: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
To: godshatter at yahoo.com; philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 13:11:03 -0700
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory
He wasn't 'going out to call the police on
criminal activity.' He could have called them from his home
and stayed there. Why do you even saying that?
He was out and about because he wanted to play the cop, and
he had a gun. He could have stayed home with his gun, like
he was told to do.
You keep assuming his defense theory is true. It was
effective, it led to the verdict, but that doesn't make it
true.
Sunil
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 11:55:13
-0700
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun
factory
Do
you think that neighborhood watch programs are a bad
thing? If you can posit for a moment that guns can come
in handy for self-defense, then going out to call the
police on criminal activity might be a time when you
have a better chance of needing to protect yourself than
when you are, say, just going to get groceries.
If
you think it wasn't self-defense, then why was
Zimmerman doing his best to lead the cops to the
encounter? Why were there no injuries on Martin
consistent with an initial attack by Zimmerman? Do
you think he shot him first? Then why did witnesses
see them on the ground fighting? To me, it just
doesn't add up.
Paul
From:
Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
To:
Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
Cc:
Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>;
viz <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent:
Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:26 AM
Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun
factory
"... he thought he was going to die and
defended himself." First, the only
evidence you have for this is that
Zimmerman said it was so. There were no
witnesses to corroborate this. We don't
know what happened. My interpretation of
the results of the trial is that there was
no reason to disbelieve Zimmerman, so no
reason to find him guilty. That does not
mean that we should believe him. There is
no reason to believe him either. The fact
is we don't know what happened in those
moments prior to the shooting.
Second, Zimmerman was out looking for
"criminals" like some want-a-be cop,
stalked a suspected criminal who turned
out to be a boy, called to report it and
was advised to stop but didn't do so, got
out of his car to follow the "suspect,"
then (supposedly) shot the boy because he
feared for his life.
I'm sorry but if you are not a cop and you
leave your house with a gun pretending to
"protect" your neighborhood, my sympathy
level will drop dramatically should
something go wrong.
Zimmerman's actions do not sound like
self-defense to me. I am not warped by the
mainstream media. In fact, I think this is
just another example of how fear and guns
together are more likely to lead to a bad
outcome than a good one. Incidents like this
are precisely why we need gun control. Some
people are just not smart enough to know how
to use guns with the required safety and
care. The Zimmerman case proves that.
And saying that folks are dupes just because
they happen to share some of the views of the
mainstream media is no different from saying
that you are a racist just because you happen
to share some of the views of racists.
On
Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Paul Rumelhart
<godshatter at yahoo.com>
wrote:
I'm not supporting Zimmerman. I'm
just dismayed by the attitudes people
have towards him based on nothing but
wishful thinking, as far as I can
see. These attitudes are shared
across the country, and is making life
for this man dangerous. All because
he thought he was going to die and
defended himself. His bad luck that he
did so at a time when guns are the new
boogieman, and that his attacker
didn't have the common sense to be a
white male.
It's really how quickly and absolutely
this narrative I keep talking about
solidified that scares the ever-living
crap out of me. It means the main
stream media is still king, and that
your average American still just soaks
it right up apparently uncritically.
Oh, and I don't plan to shut up, thank
you anyway.
Paul
On 08/25/2013 08:39 AM, Joe
Campbell wrote:
Of course I don't
condone the bounty, or death
threats. It is still a mystery
to me why you keep condoning
Zimmerman. If you want folks to
stop talking about him, why
don't you start us off? Really,
I only post on that guy when you
or others try to defend him, or
act shocked about the public
outrage. Otherwise, I don't
really think about him much.
On
Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 8:30 AM,
Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
wrote:
You're right. He should
look properly chastened
at all times so as not
to offend people like
yourself. I bet he was
laughing at a joke! The
bastard.
I will admit that if he
was thinking in terms of
PR, then staging a
photoshoot at a gun
store was not the
brightest move. I
suspect, though, that he
can't move three feet in
public without some
self-righteous a-hole
tracking his every move
and taking his picture.
It won't last long,
though. They'll get him
in civil court soon
where the threshold for
evidence is not so high.
While we're on the
subject, does anyone out
there in viz-land
condone the bounty put
on him by the New Black
Panther Party? Does
anyone condemn it? How
about the multiple death
threats he and his
family have been
getting? I normally
wouldn't ask this, but
the reactions here to
this case have so
disappointed me that I
just have to.
Paul
On 08/24/2013 10:16
PM, Scott Dredge
wrote:
I think it's
STUPID of Zimmerman
to be cheesing it up
for photos while
touring a gun
factory. I was
seeing shades that
idiot president of
CA fish and game who
bagged a mountain
lion in Idaho and
went on the cover of
some magazine
beaming while
holding the dead
carcass.
FWIW - I disagree
that Zimmerman was
hunting Martin, but
nonetheless he did
fatally shoot him
and this type of
behavior is quite
the opposite of
being remorseful.
But hey, if he wants
to stay around
Florida and make
himself visible
while there's a
bounty on his head,
that's certainly his
choice and likely
another bad choice
in a growing list.
CC: scooterd408 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
From: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Zimmy
beams as he tours
gun factory
Date: Sat, 24 Aug
2013 18:30:05
-0700
To: godshatter at yahoo.com
I said it
was closer to
hunting than
self defense.
It was. And
Martin was a
kid; Zimmerman
was not. And
Martin is
dead. Maybe
that is why no
one is blaming
him.
Did Martin
make a
mistake?
Apparently --
but really we
don't know
that any more
than we know
why Zimmerman
did what he
did. But
Martin paid a
hefty price
for his
mistake.
Zimmerman did
not. That's
why folks are
upset.
On Aug 24,
2013, at 6:20
PM, Paul
Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
wrote:
That's the
narrative I'm
talking
about. It
completely
ignores
Trayvon
Martin's own
actions that
helped lead to
his death and
it exaggerates
George
Zimmerman's
actions.
Following
someone down a
sidewalk is
not the same
as "hunting" a
person. We
have exactly
zero evidence
that Zimmerman
followed
Martin in
order to kill
him.
But have fun
with the
narrative. If
you happen
across
Zimmerman, get
in a few licks
for the rest
of us.
Paul
On 08/24/2013
05:44 PM, Joe
Campbell
wrote:
Goes
against the
narrative? The
guy stalked a
kid, against
the advice of
a 911
operator, and
ended up
killing him.
Honestly,
I just don't
get it.
Stalking and
shooting is a
lot closer to
hunting than
self-defense.
Why is that so
difficult for
you to see?
On Aug 24,
2013, at 5:11
PM, Paul
Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
wrote:
Well, he and
his family do
get death
threats
regularly: http://globalgrind.com/2013/08/03/robert-zimmerman-reveals-family-400-death-threats-per-minute-starbucks-employee-george-trayvon-martin-details/
And there is a
$10,000 bounty
put on
Zimmerman for
his capture by
the New Black
Panther Party:
http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/07/19/Black-Panthers-2012-video-for-Zimmerman-bounty-resurfaces/3711374236844/
So maybe he is
in need of a
good
home-defense
weapon.
Of course,
progressives
are not
allowed to
feel bad about
that because
it goes
against the
narrative.
Pity, one
could almost
feel bad for a
guy who is
reviled on the
national stage
for protecting
himself from
getting his
ass beat,
whether or not
it was his own
stupidity that
got him
there.
Oh, well.
It's much
easier to
think of him
as a monster.
Paul
On 08/24/2013
03:29 PM,
Scott Dredge
wrote:
http://www.mediaite.com/online/george-zimmerman-went-gun-shopping-today/
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