[Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory

Sun Aug 25 18:18:45 PDT 2013

Well, Paul, no one on earth likes strong Anglo Saxon words more than I do -
but in your case, the undisguised rage in your last sentence seems to
indicate an anger management issue that might is way out of proportion to
the subject at hand and the general tone of the conversation.  Take a deep
breath and a walk around the block.  It's summertime and the living is easy
. . . . or something like that.

Rose Huskey

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Paul Rumelhart
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 3:37 PM
To: Scott Dredge
Cc: viz
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory

Bullshit.  He was buying a home defense weapon.  If there were death threats
against me and mine, I would do the same.  Besides, he was found not guilty.
In a perfect world, he could whatever the fuck he wanted.

Paul

On 08/25/2013 02:53 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:

Based on photographic evidence, audio evidence, the measurable timeline,
GZ's medical report, TM's autopsy report combined with corroborating witness
testimony, it's difficult to draw any conclusion other than TM being on top
of GZ and hitting him for at least 45 seconds prior to the fatal and only
shot.  GZ shouldn't have followed TM and should have stayed in his truck.
TM shouldn't have attacked him.  But TM did what he did and GZ did what he
did, so here we are.

This whole thing has already spun as a 'perfect storm'.  And if GZ is going
to do things like tour a Kel Tec factory, pose for photo ops, and let it be
known he's interested in acquiring more fire power, he's putting himself,
his family, and anyone around him in danger.  His actions are tantamount to
'bring it on' taunting.  Don't be surprised if someone takes the bait
resulting in more tragedy.  Don't be surprised if GZ blasts someone innocent
that he mistakenly believes was coming after him.  Don't be surprised when
there is another dead body and GZ claims 'self defense'.

  _____  

From: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
To: godshatter at yahoo.com; philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 13:11:03 -0700
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory

He wasn't 'going out to call the police on criminal activity.' He could have
called them from his home and stayed there. Why do you even saying that? 

He was out and about because he wanted to play the cop, and he had a gun. He
could have stayed home with his gun, like he was told to do. 

You keep assuming his defense theory is true. It was effective, it led to
the verdict, but that doesn't make it true.

Sunil

  _____  

Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 11:55:13 -0700
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory

Do you think that neighborhood watch programs are a bad thing?  If you can
posit for a moment that guns can come in handy for self-defense, then going
out to call the police on criminal activity might be a time when you have a
better chance of needing to protect yourself than when you are, say, just
going to get groceries.

If you think it wasn't self-defense, then why was Zimmerman doing his best
to lead the cops to the encounter?  Why were there no injuries on Martin
consistent with an initial attack by Zimmerman?  Do you think he shot him
first?  Then why did witnesses see them on the ground fighting?  To me, it
just doesn't add up.

Paul

  _____  

From: Joe Campbell  <mailto:philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
<philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
To: Paul Rumelhart  <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com> <godshatter at yahoo.com> 
Cc: Scott Dredge  <mailto:scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
<scooterd408 at hotmail.com>; viz  <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
<vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory

"... he thought he was going to die and defended himself." First, the only
evidence you have for this is that Zimmerman said it was so. There were no
witnesses to corroborate this. We don't know what happened. My
interpretation of the results of the trial is that there was no reason to
disbelieve Zimmerman, so no reason to find him guilty. That does not mean
that we should believe him. There is no reason to believe him either. The
fact is we don't know what happened in those moments prior to the shooting.

Second, Zimmerman was out looking for "criminals" like some want-a-be cop,
stalked a suspected criminal who turned out to be a boy, called to report it
and was advised to stop but didn't do so, got out of his car to follow the
"suspect," then (supposedly) shot the boy because he feared for his life. 

I'm sorry but if you are not a cop and you leave your house with a gun
pretending to "protect" your neighborhood, my sympathy level will drop
dramatically should something go wrong. 

Zimmerman's actions do not sound like self-defense to me. I am not warped by
the mainstream media. In fact, I think this is just another example of how
fear and guns together are more likely to lead to a bad outcome than a good
one. Incidents like this are precisely why we need gun control. Some people
are just not smart enough to know how to use guns with the required safety
and care. The Zimmerman case proves that. 

And saying that folks are dupes just because they happen to share some of
the views of the mainstream media is no different from saying that you are a
racist just because you happen to share some of the views of racists.

On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
wrote:

I'm not supporting Zimmerman.  I'm just dismayed by the attitudes people
have towards him based on nothing but wishful thinking, as far as I can see.
These attitudes are shared across the country, and is making life for this
man dangerous.  All because he thought he was going to die and defended
himself. His bad luck that he did so at a time when guns are the new
boogieman, and that his attacker didn't have the common sense to be a white
male.

It's really how quickly and absolutely this narrative I keep talking about
solidified that scares the ever-living crap out of me.  It means the main
stream media is still king, and that your average American still just soaks
it right up apparently uncritically.

Oh, and I don't plan to shut up, thank you anyway.

Paul 

On 08/25/2013 08:39 AM, Joe Campbell wrote:

Of course I don't condone the bounty, or death threats. It is still a
mystery to me why you keep condoning Zimmerman. If you want folks to stop
talking about him, why don't you start us off? Really, I only post on that
guy when you or others try to defend him, or act shocked about the public
outrage. Otherwise, I don't really think about him much.

On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 8:30 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
wrote:

You're right.  He should look properly chastened at all times so as not to
offend people like yourself.  I bet he was laughing at a joke!  The bastard.

I will admit that if he was thinking in terms of PR, then staging a
photoshoot at a gun store was not the brightest move.  I suspect, though,
that he can't move three feet in public without some self-righteous a-hole
tracking his every move and taking his picture.  It won't last long, though.
They'll get him in civil court soon where the threshold for evidence is not
so high.

While we're on the subject, does anyone out there in viz-land condone the
bounty put on him by the New Black Panther Party?  Does anyone condemn it?
How about the multiple death threats he and his family have been getting?  I
normally wouldn't ask this, but the reactions here to this case have so
disappointed me that I just have to.

Paul 

On 08/24/2013 10:16 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:

I think it's STUPID of Zimmerman to be cheesing it up for photos while
touring a gun factory.  I was seeing shades that idiot president of CA fish
and game who bagged a mountain lion in Idaho and went on the cover of some
magazine beaming while holding the dead carcass.

FWIW - I disagree that Zimmerman was hunting Martin, but nonetheless he did
fatally shoot him and this type of behavior is quite the opposite of being
remorseful.  But hey, if he wants to stay around Florida and make himself
visible while there's a bounty on his head, that's certainly his choice and
likely another bad choice in a growing list.

  _____  

CC: scooterd408 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
From: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:30:05 -0700
To: godshatter at yahoo.com

I said it was closer to hunting than self defense. It was. And Martin was a
kid; Zimmerman was not. And Martin is dead. Maybe that is why no one is
blaming him. 

Did Martin make a mistake? Apparently -- but really we don't know that any
more than we know why Zimmerman did what he did. But Martin paid a hefty
price for his mistake. Zimmerman did not. That's why folks are upset.

On Aug 24, 2013, at 6:20 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:

That's the narrative I'm talking about.  It completely ignores Trayvon
Martin's own actions that helped lead to his death and it exaggerates George
Zimmerman's actions.  Following someone down a sidewalk is not the same as
"hunting" a person.  We have exactly zero evidence that Zimmerman followed
Martin in order to kill him.  

But have fun with the narrative.  If you happen across Zimmerman, get in a
few licks for the rest of us.

Paul 

On 08/24/2013 05:44 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:

Goes against the narrative? The guy stalked a kid, against the advice of a
911 operator, and ended up killing him. 

Honestly, I just don't get it. Stalking and shooting is a lot closer to
hunting than self-defense. Why is that so difficult for you to see?

On Aug 24, 2013, at 5:11 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:

Well, he and his family do get death threats regularly:
http://globalgrind.com/2013/08/03/robert-zimmerman-reveals-family-400-death-
threats-per-minute-starbucks-employee-george-trayvon-martin-details/

And there is a $10,000 bounty put on Zimmerman for his capture by the New
Black Panther Party:
http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/07/19/Black-Panthers-2012-video-for-Zimmerman-b
ounty-resurfaces/3711374236844/

So maybe he is in need of a good home-defense weapon.

Of course, progressives are not allowed to feel bad about that because it
goes against the narrative.  Pity, one could almost feel bad for a guy who
is reviled on the national stage for protecting himself from getting his ass
beat, whether or not it was his own stupidity that got him there.  

Oh, well.  It's much easier to think of him as a monster.  

Paul

On 08/24/2013 03:29 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:

http://www.mediaite.com/online/george-zimmerman-went-gun-shopping-today/

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