[Vision2020] [corrected] It's Time for an Honest Conversation About Marijuana . . .
Joe Campbell
philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Thu Aug 15 07:23:29 PDT 2013
I will feel good as soon as you tell another 100 stories like this. I'm pretty sure there are a lot more stories where folks went to jail for selling pot and things did not work out so well.
On Aug 14, 2013, at 11:18 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> She and her mother were each offered plea deals for 2 year sentences and they declined this. Instead they entered blind pleas gambling that the judge would be lenient based on no previously felony convictions and and the small amount of dope they were dealing. If they had gotten a male judge, perhaps like myself he would have been smitten by her good looks and would have let her go with a simple warning + a stern finger wagging telling her not to do this same sort of thing again. Worst case, the slime dog judge - my alter ego if you will - also might have asked her out to dinner.
>
> But as fate would have it, they got a female judge who wasn't too keen on them dealing dope in front of children and instead she gave Patricia Spottedcrow a 12 years sentence which was a sentence that the judge herself considered as 'lenient' given all the circumstances that she had evaluated. She gave Spottedcrow's mom a 30 years suspended sentence with no jail time.
>
> Considering that ultimately Patricia Spottedcrow served 2 years behind bars and her mom served zero, they did even better than original plea deal they declined that was for 2 years incarceration for each of them. This could be considered a silver lining for anyone who might think of themself as being an 'optimist' who sees things as the 'jail half empty' instead of the 'jail unnecessarily full'.
>
> The presumed downside is that she now has a felony conviction and supposedly won't be able to find employment, housing, or be able to get loans. Just as an aside - and GOD FORBID that anyone (especially Tom Hansen who posted this in the first place) ever bothered to scratch the surface and get any EFFING DETAILS surrounding this whole sad and sorry situation - they would have learnt that prior to her arrest, she was 'unemployed and did not have a stable residence at the time of her arrest, the report states. The family lost their Oklahoma City home for not paying bills, the report states.'
>
> Thus, prior to her arrest and without a felony record, she was uneducated, unemployed, flat broke, and homeless with 4 kids when she turned to dealing drugs in front of her kids as a way to make IN HER OWN WORDS 'easy money'. And now due to incarceration, she has earned a GED, attended parenting classes, and attended AA meetings which is probably a good thing considering that when she was booked, after her sentence was handed down, marijuana was found in her jacket resulting in a subsequent additional guilty plea from her and an additional 2 year concurrent sentence. Hellooooo!!!!!! When you get caught dealing dope, would it bother to cross your mind that it might be yet another BAD CHOICE to be carrying any more bags of dope on your person at your sentencing & booking such that you don't get additional criminal charges filed against you that you have zero defense to rebuff??? Do you think that might not look so good in the future in front of parole boards who are looking for some inkling of remorse and some small signs that you're not going to re-offend on the exact same crimes???
>
> If you ask me, this should be considered a 'feel good' story along the lines of a phoenix rising from the ashes, someone getting a second chance at doing right for themselves and their kids, the criminal justice system succeeding at rehabilitating and admitted felon, ...
>
> But no one is asking and they wouldn't listen to anything I have to say because they're all just deafened by sound bites of 'racial injustice' and '$31 bags of marijuana'. Knock yourselves out.
>
> FWIW - I hope she and all of her kids are proven to be spectacularly productive members of society or in the alternative that they are all happy, healthy, and stay out of any further legal trouble.
>
>
> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 21:32:36 -0700
> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [corrected] It's Time for an Honest Conversation About Marijuana . . .
> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com; scooterd408 at hotmail.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>
> Anybody will admit to a crime if the alternative is a longer prison sentence because you don't have a defense. At $500 an hour, what defense could you afford against a department with virtually unlimited resources and a goal of a 100% conviction rate?
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
>
>
> From: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>;
> To: Sunil <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>;
> Cc: viz <vision2020 at moscow.com>;
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [corrected] It's Time for an Honest Conversation About Marijuana . . .
> Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 11:44:54 PM
>
> Sunil!!! The price of the dope is completely irrelevant to her plea of guilty and the sentencing of the law that she herself admitted she broke. If it was relevant in any way whatsoever, then her PD should have made it such. For all I know she didn't have PD. For all I know, she had absolutely zero legal representation. The only thing I've read is that she entered a 'blind plea' which in retrospect seemed to have been a MONUMENTAL MISTAKE on her part. I've seen nothing about the exact law that she blindly plead guilty to, but my guess is that it was something along the lines 'FELONY DRUG DEALING'. Can you explain to me how the $31 bag of dope is relevent whatsoever??? She blindly plead guilty to felony drug dealing. This phase of the legal proceedings is now done. The next phase is sentencing. For all I know, the sentencing was a simple lookup table that resulted in '12 years behind bars'. It might have been wise to go that lookup table prior to entering a blind plea. It might have been wise to have a defense lawyer. If Ms. Spottedcrow had hired you to defend, do you think she would have gotten 12 years? I don't. I don't think she would have gotten 12 months behind bars. Her own mom got a 30 year SUSPENDED sentence. She herself with 3 or 4 young kids couldn't have gotten a similar suspended sentence with representation from a halfway decent PD???
>
> Beyond that, one of the articles I found had snipets that read:
> 'Spottedcrow took responsibility for her crime and told the board that things in her life at the time of her arrest were spiraling out of control, and prison may have saved her life, Dreyer said. '
>
> What a shame, eh, that 'prison may have saved her life' that was 'spiraling out of control'.
>
> -Scott
>
> From: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 05:32:31 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [corrected] It's Time for an Honest Conversation About Marijuana . . .
>
> The amount is not irrelevant. IF you're going to criminalize selling MJ, you should not treat all people who sell in the same way. The person selling large quantities should face a higher penalty than someone selling a minor amount.
>
> Sunil
>
> From: scooterd408 at hotmail.com
> To: thansen at moscow.com
> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 16:02:05 -0600
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [corrected] It's Time for an Honest Conversation About Marijuana . . .
>
> Tom wrote:
> <A 30-dollar sale in 2010 DOES NOT equate to "a big bulk package".>
>
> I agree. The $30 (or in this case $31) is irrelevant except to you because you keep harping on it as if it has any merit to the law(s) being broken or to the associated sentencing terms. "a big bulk package" would be indicative of it's physical dimensions and mass and no one seems to be able to get that information since their is so little information available about this case. Distilling it down to basics, she was dealing drugs, she was caught, she was charged, she plead guilty, she was sentenced accordingly, and she was released 2 years after service her 12 year sentence. Simple as that. Disproportionate? Probably.
>
> <Another aspect to consider as to why so many defendants convicted of minor crimes is . . . privatized prison systems.>
> Untrue. Privatized prison system are not the cause of why many defendants are convicted of minor crimes. That's a ridiculous notion.
>
>
>
> CC: moscowcares at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> From: thansen at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [corrected] It's Time for an Honest Conversation About Marijuana . . .
> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 14:26:28 -0700
> To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com
>
> Mr. Dredge . . .
>
> A 30-dollar sale in 2010 DOES NOT equate to "a big bulk package". In fact, it barely qualifies as a user quantity (a standard many states apply when determining whether or not to charge "with intent to sell").
>
> Now, that "big bulk package" on the other hand is comon among those charged with intent to sell.
>
> Another aspect to consider as to why so many defendants convicted of minor crimes is . . . privatized prison systems. The more prisoners, the higher the government pay-out to the privatized prisons. There are several strong lobbies that promote these privatized prison systems. I'd be interested to see if there is such a lobby here in Idaho and just how much influence they applied when Idaho adopted the privatized prison system.
>
> Things that make you go, "Hmmm."
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>
> - John Lennon
>
>
>
> On Aug 13, 2013, at 2:11 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> There are so few details that I can find about this particular case, I'm not able to give my best unbiased opinion on it. Everything I've searched for hits on the same one-sided text. Absent any other information, I had already conceded below that 12 years was 'too much' in my opinion and that even 2 years was 'probably too much'.
>
> The arbitrary price tag she put on the bag she was selling probably was completely irrelevant to the law being applied. Usually laws specify the weighted amount of the drugs being dealt or in possession. She shouldn't have been dealing the shit. Hopefully she's the wiser for it now and stays out of trouble.
>
> I was once foreman of 12 person jury on a case where a guy was charged with 1) an infraction of having an open container, 2) a misdemeanor of possession of a controlled substance, and 3) a felony of possession of a controlled substance with intent to sell.
>
> The first 2 charges weren't even contested, so with the consent of the jury I just checked 'guilty' on the verdict form for both of those counts. Considering the guy had 4 ready to serve packets along with a big bulk package, we the jury eventually unanimously found him 'guilty' on the felony count as well. I have no idea what the sentencing was but when I phoned the prosecutor the next day because I was curious as to why he so aggressively went after this seemingly small time criminal who had the bad luck of blowing through a stop sign right in front a cop, he told me the judge would probably sentence him to 2 to 3 years.
>
> In the case of Patricia Spottedcrow, she and her mom apparently submitted blind pleas (whatever those are) and was hit with whatever sentencing was applied to breaking those laws. I agree with Wayne in that if the laws are unjust, then they should be changed. A lot of times it takes just the right case such as this one to actually force a change.
>
> -Scot
>
> CC: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> From: moscowcares at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [corrected] It's Time for an Honest Conversation About Marijuana . . .
> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 12:00:59 -0700
> To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com
>
> Mr. Dredge -
>
> Do you have ANY idea of the negligible amount of marijuana sold for $30 in 2010 amounts to?
>
> Let me give you an idea.
>
> In 1977 in San Francisco an ounce of Columbian sold for $50-$60. That was THIRTY-THREE YEARS prior to this 30-dollar "sale".
>
> And for THAT, this lady was sentenced to twelve years in prison.
>
> Meanwhile San Diego Mayor Filner walks away from sexually assaulting thirteen women after FIVE DAYS OF THERAPY.
>
> God bless America . . . . . . please.
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>
> - John Lennon
>
>
>
> On Aug 13, 2013, at 11:46 AM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> In this particular case, it's a a mixed bag regarding marijuana laws making sense / working. She sold a bag of marijuana which I'm guessing would be a much worse offense than merely being in possession of it. 12 years for all of her combined crimes is too much in my amateur opinion. The 2 years she served is probably too much. On the upside, while incarcerated she completed her GED and took parenting classes and participated in a few other programs that were offered. Hopefully she's come out of this experience as more functional person.
>
> I think if the marijuana laws are not making sense and not working, it might be because marijuana is lumped into to the same category as say cocaine. I'm not sure of the laws, but if this is the case, then marijuana should be moved into some lesser category. Even so, dealing it should carry a heavier penalty than possessing it.
>
>
> From: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 05:35:13 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] It's Time for an Honest Conversation About Marijuana . . .
>
> Wayne,
>
> Do you think our marijuana laws make sense or are working?
>
> Sunil
>
> From: bear at moscow.com
> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 18:37:58 -0700
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] It's Time for an Honest Conversation About Marijuana . . .
>
> Honest? I think not!
>
> Served 2 years in prison, not 12.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 12, 2013, at 6:05 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:
>
> <1146440_502299883171842_938877420_n.jpg>
>
> Cannabis Nation
> http://www.cannabisnationradio.com/
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>
> - John Lennon
>
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> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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> ======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================
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> ======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
> ======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================
>
> ======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
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