[Vision2020] FW: [corrected] It's Time for an Honest Conversation About Marijuana . . .

Wed Aug 14 16:52:15 PDT 2013

Fascinating Tom!  You don't given damn about a topic you kicked off.  Isn't...it...ironic?  Don't you think so?   It's like rain on your wedding day.  A free ride when you've already paid.  Some good advice that you just didn't take.

CC: philosopher.joe at gmail.com; v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm; vision2020 at moscow.com
From: thansen at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [corrected] It's Time for an Honest Conversation About Marijuana . . .
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 05:10:53 -0700
To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com  Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you must learn how to smile as you kill If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon

On Aug 13, 2013, at 11:43 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:

If the goal is to save money, then I agree that having fewer folks in prison would save more.  But then there is cost of having people roaming free stealing property and / or causing property damage that would also need to be factored in to the equation.  In a perfect state, the bare minimum number of folks would be incarcerated and upon release would be rehabilitated.  Fat chance of that happening.

I don't have any evidence that privatizing prisons saves tax dollars.  Tom correctly stated that I still don't get his point.  This was mainly because he was unable to clearly articulate it.

Saundra, as for your statement of '[prison privatization being]
 just a way to transfer taxpayer dollars to the private sector where 
there’s less accountability and higher per inmate costs – which 
translates to corporate profits – and lower wages & decreased 
quality of corrections professionals.', this wouldn't surprise me one bit especially with Republicans in charge.

-Scott

CC: scooterd408 at hotmail.com; thansen at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
From: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [corrected] It's Time for an Honest Conversation About Marijuana . . .
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 19:26:23 -0700
To: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm

Even if privatization saves money having fewer folks in prison would save even more. So it is a mute point.
On Aug 13, 2013, at 6:05 PM, "Saundra Lund" <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm> wrote:

Jumping in just to address this part of the conversation, but the “theory” that privatization of prisons saves taxpayer money is just that:  an unproven theory.  If you have any evidence that the theory has been proven to be accurate in anything other than isolated (and perhaps questionable) instances, please share.  This is a topic I try to keep abreast of, and I’m not aware of validation of that “cost saving” privatization theory.  Indeed, what seems to be the case is that when comparing apples to apples, private prisons do NOT seem to save money – rather, it’s just a way to transfer taxpayer dollars to the private sector where there’s less accountability and higher per inmate costs – which translates to corporate profits – and lower wages & decreased quality of corrections professionals. There have been lots of articles about the issue – here are some I’m familiar with:http://sacurrent.com/news/do-private-prisons-save-money-1.1198789http://tucsoncitizen.com/mark-evans/archives/732http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/19/us/19prisons.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 And, of course, there’s the whole CCA debacle right here in Idaho, which has received extensive coverage over the last couple of years.  Regrettably, I don’t have the links handy . . . wait!  Here’s something I started writing up a month or so ago before the more recent revelations (Idaho dumping CCA, CCA facing contempt charges, etc.) – please forgive the incomplete state of it, but it does have some of the links: For a very brief recap, first the fiscally irresponsible dumbos decided privatization by getting into bed with the devil in the form of for-profit CCA (Corrections Corporation of America) to service ICC (Idaho Corrections Center) was a good idea. Predictably, CCA quickly showed itself for the devil anyone with connected brain cells already knew it to be:<http://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights/aclu-lawsuit-charges-idaho-prison-officials-promote-rampant-violence>ORhttp://tinyurl.com/ACLU-ICC-CCA Then  -- shock of all shocks -- it turns out privatization doesn't really save money when comparing apples to apples, as has been shown time & time again but it *does* erode quality and the middle class, yet Idaho's dunces stick their fingers in their ears while singing "lalalala" like the petulant three-year-olds they've consistently shown themselves to be:http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/boise/2012/mar/05/ap-private-prisons-may-be-costing-idaho-more-state-hasnt-checked/ORhttp://tinyurl.com/oq3gydt ANDhttp://www.spokesman.com/blogs/boise/2012/mar/05/prison-budget-set-includes-3-increase-private-prison-firm-cca/ORhttp://tinyurl.com/q33z65j Do be sure to note that those Boise GOP & tea bagger fiscal hawks (ROTFLMAO) decided to reward CCA's repeated & serious contract NON-compliance with nearly a $1 million increase.  Too funny. Flash forward to April, when -- in another shocking (NOT) development -- when CCA admitted to falsifying THOUSANDS of hours of staffing records at ICC:http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/ICC-CCA-false-Staff-records-Idaho-Prison-202588231.html HTH,SaundraMoscow, ID I distrust those who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.~ Susan B. Anthony    From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Scott Dredge
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 5:10 PM
To: Tom Hansen
Cc: viz
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [corrected] It's Time for an Honest Conversation About Marijuana . . . OK.  So there is a taxpayer cost for every prisoner housed by a private prison.  And presumably there is a taxpayer savings from every one of those prisoners not being housed in a state run prison.  If so, it would make sense to migrate prisoners from the state run facility over to the privatized one.  If the privatized facilities subsequently jack up their rates such that it would be lower cost to move them back to the state run facility, then such action should take place.  Stretching out tax dollars would allow any savings to be plowed into other government sanctioned projects.CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
From: thansen at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [corrected] It's Time for an Honest Conversation About Marijuana . . .
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 16:34:05 -0700
To: scooterd408 at hotmail.comOne more time, Mr. Dredge . . . Privatized prison companies "donate" heavily to election campaigns of those that may provide benefit to the privatized prison companies once they (the candidate to whom they [the privatized prison company] contributed $) are elected into office (say . . . perhaps a state governor's office). Upon assuming office, the elected official pushes for a privatized state prison system, to be managed/operated by the private company that donated $ to the elected official's campaign. Once the privte prison company is contracted by that state to house convicted defendants sentenced to a term in prison, that company is paid on a per-prisoner basis. The more prisoners, the bigger the payment from the state (pronounced "tax payers"). Ok?Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . . "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com  Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho "There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you must learn how to smile as you kill 
If you want to be like the folks on the hill." - John Lennon  
On Aug 13, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:<NOW do ya get it?>
No.  What difference does it make whether criminals do their time in state run prisons or privatized prisons?CC: moscowcares at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
From: thansen at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [corrected] It's Time for an Honest Conversation About Marijuana . . .
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 15:30:50 -0700
To: scooterd408 at hotmail.comMr. Dredge lamely suggests: "Privatized prison system are not the cause of why many defendants are convicted of minor crimes.  That's a ridiculous notion." Perhaps I was expecting too much from you, Mr. Dredge.   The intent of my suggestion was to reflect on the incarceration of those convicted of minor offenses . . . incarcerated in privatized prison systems . . . privatized prison systems being marketed by lobbies . . . and adopted by state governments . . . like Idaho. NOW do ya get it?Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . . "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com  Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho "There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you must learn how to smile as you kill 
If you want to be like the folks on the hill." - John Lennon  
On Aug 13, 2013, at 3:02 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:Privatized prison system are not the cause of why many defendants are convicted of minor crimes.  That's a ridiculous notion.=======================================================
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