[Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .
Joe Campbell
philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Thu Nov 1 10:48:44 PDT 2012
Is there some reason that your insulting rants are better than those of others? I don't see it.
On Nov 1, 2012, at 10:29 AM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Reposting - I grabbed the wrong Tom Hansen thread the first time being's that there are so many of them...
>
> Well golly gee Mr. Hansen, I'm downright shocked that things aren't as simple and as black & white as you first presented them to be and that since you jumped the gun on this and trumped it up - as you do on a lot of thing - that you now are reversing course and asking folks to contact you off list so you can further explain in order to try and save face. And this despicable thread is what you so now nonchalantly refer to a 'venting [your] concern'??? You're pathetic.
>
> From: thansen at moscow.com
> Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 08:39:27 -0700
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .
>
> Upon further off-list review and discussion, I have decided not to pursue this matter any further.
>
> If any of you fine V-Peeps are interested in how I reached this decision, contact me off-list.
>
> In the interim, thank you for permitting me to vent my concern.
>
> Seeya at the polls, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares"
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>
> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 1, 2012, at 4:46 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>
> Laws are only as firm as those that enforce them.
>
> Stay tuned, V-Peeps
>
> Seeya at the polls, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares"
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>
> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 1, 2012, at 12:09 AM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sounds reasonable to me Kit and I'd think this all could be handled by just having a non-accusatory (if possible) conversation with this council member and getting a better understanding about his situation (should he choose to want this publicly disclosed) and his ability to continue fulfilling his duties. The tenor of the comments here on the Viz from the regular contributors of group thinkers is that he's not well liked and not at all trusted, so I don't really foresee the V2020 mob - fully equipped with pitchforks and torches in hand - having a cordial and honest conversation with this particular council member.
>
> I'm not a politician and nor will I ever be so it's kind of tough for me to put myself in this guy's situation to say what I'd do, but my sense is that I would simply have 'no comment' to anyone or any group who was acting hostile toward me and jumping to conclusions that I was operating in an underhanded and dishonest manner and was making statements to the effect that they wanted me to resign or be forcibly removed from my position. What other choice is there...be forthcoming and cooperative and have your admitted enemies use all that against you as they can and would do? I think the legal requirements can easily be addressed, but would then lead to your subsequent point regarding gaming the system to meet Tom's supposedly all important 'letter of the law' - which is really only important in terms of how effective the law is to DQ this guy immediately from his position. I'll give Tom credit that he is transparent on that end goal.
>
>
> > CC: thansen at moscow.com; kmmos1 at frontier.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> > From: kcraine at frontier.com
> > To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .
> > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 21:46:58 -0700
> >
> > I think this basic question is two fold:
> >
> > 1. Does the councilor involved met the legal requirement that he
> > resides in the district he represents?
> >
> > 2. Does the councilor's heart reside in the district he represents?
> >
> > In the first instance, if the councilor does not reside -- or is
> > gaming the system to claim he resides -- in the district he
> > represents, should he be in office (morally or legally) when he does
> > not belong to the group he claims to represent? The question is
> > whether we (the citizens of Moscow, Idaho) should accept being ruled
> > by an outsider (e.g. someone from Troy, Pullman, Spokane, New York,
> > Mars) who will not suffer the consequences of his decisions.
> >
> > In the second instance, should a person who does not have an interest
> > in the future of a community he represents (because he knows he will
> > not live with the consequences of his decisions) have a moral
> > obligation to step down from an office he holds?
> >
> > City councilors determine the policies which run this city. Their
> > decisions impact every member of the population. Regardless of of the
> > legal status of a councilor's claimed residence, the question is
> > whether that councilor is willing to live with the consequences of his/
> > her decisions (i.e, will they be residing in Moscow after their
> > term?). The community has the right to ask why a suspected out-of-
> > community councilor ran for the position AND why the councilor should
> > continue to be retained in the position. The councilor has an
> > obligation to answer -- AND to justify his continued membership of the
> > council in terms of the long-term benefits of a community he had left.
> >
> > Kit Craine
> >
> >
> > On Oct 31, 2012, at 8:58 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:
> >
> > > I'd hope that the city council members would ignore most of your
> > > numerous petty requests Tom, but let me know how this all works out
> > > for you. If this guy isn't carrying out his duties (e.g. was not
> > > involved in any way) then that'd be the reason to jettison him. If
> > > this residency thing is a huge fricken' big deal and anyone in the
> > > powers that be gives one wit I'm sure there can be some monumental
> > > waste of time and effort put forth to meet the letter of the law,
> > > but what'd be the point since you'd just go snooping for some other
> > > minor infraction to yell 'throw the bum out'. What a joke.
> > >
> > > From: thansen at moscow.com
> > > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 04:19:31 -0700
> > > To: kmmos1 at frontier.com
> > > CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .
> > >
> > > Bottom line: The law is the law; the spirit of the law being that
> > > our governing city council WILL NOT be comprised of nonresidents.
> > >
> > > Reasoning for noncompliance: There was no explanation given as to
> > > why the city code will not be enforced.
> > >
> > > Options: As residents, subject to city code enforcement, we can
> > > either request, in a letter to the city council and Mayor Chaney,
> > > that action be taken or we can join Mr. Dredge in burying our heads
> > > in the proverbial sand.
> > >
> > > I have NEVER been known to sit on my hands.
> > >
> > > As one quote goes . . .
> > >
> > > "Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!"
> > >
> > > This IS important, Moscow, because . . .
> > >
> > > "Moscow Cares"
> > > http://www.MoscowCares.com
> > >
> > > Tom Hansen
> > > Moscow, Idaho
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Oct 31, 2012, at 3:34 AM, Kenneth Marcy <kmmos1 at frontier.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > On 10/30/2012 11:12 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:
> > > It's a non-issue.
> > >
> > > One of the essential characteristics of municipal government is that
> > > it is relatively local, i.e., close to those who are governed and,
> > > ipso facto, those who are governed are close to those who govern
> > > them. If one of those governing changes one of his characteristics
> > > from local to non-local, that change creates an incongruity with
> > > local government characteristics which may be resolved by
> > > resignation from office by the incongruous person.
> > >
> > > It's tantamount to claiming Obama is ineligible to be president
> > > because many believe he was born in Kenya.
> > >
> > > That is maldirective nonsense. Many people believe incorrect
> > > information to their individual and our collective detriment. The
> > > fact of their belief does not justify it, nor does it serve as a
> > > basis for argument that because it is true that anything else is true.
> > >
> > > If this Tim Brown character is not eligible to be sitting on the
> > > council, then someone who cares about this should follow the
> > > processes in place to remove / replace him.
> > >
> > > Tim Brown initiated the processes necessary to place himself into
> > > membership of the Moscow City Council at a time when his
> > > characteristics were consonant with such membership. Apparently he
> > > has changed those characteristics, so he should initiate the
> > > processes necessary to remove himself from membership of the Moscow
> > > City Council.
> > >
> > > That'd just be far too logical and it won't happen so this flap is
> > > much ado about nothing.
> > >
> > > Asking other people to expend the energy to collectively act to do
> > > what the incumbent could, and should, do individually with less
> > > energy, and more grace, is neither "logical" nor efficient, and
> > > represents a level of counterproductivity that is counterintuitive
> > > to better local government.
> > >
> > > "Much ado about nothing" serves better as a Shakespearean play title
> > > than as a description of this discussion.
> > >
> > >
> > > Ken
> > > =======================================================
> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > =======================================================
> > >
> > > ======================================================= List
> > > services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
> > > communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com=======================================================
> > > =======================================================
> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > =======================================================
> >
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
> ======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
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