[Vision2020] Researchers say aerosols from small volcanic eruptions could cool climate

Thu Jul 12 12:13:43 PDT 2012

Scott writes;

"Altruism exists, I just found it seemingly inconsistent that Donovan was belly aching about too much greed in the world on one thread and then in a separate thread bemoaning about Obamacare's negative affect on his own wallet and him not getting anything in return from it."

What is inconsistent? I am more than willing to give a percentage of my income for universal health care in this country. But Obamacare doesn't help anyone, unless you are an insurance company. So it isn't altruistic to be for it.  If Obamacare improved overall care of people, reduced costs, and gave access to health care for all, I would agree. But is doesn't. It is just a tax for being poor. To me, that is greed.

You claim, "Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit."

I disagree. Self preservation is a necessary instinct. Interest in improving the well being of yourself, family, and friends is natural. But greed destroys the community, relationships, and people's lives. There is a difference between taking what you need and being secure and comfortable versus that of destroying other people to get a great deal more than you need.

Greed is why we are in a financial crisis now. And greed was the reason we were in the last financial crisis. 

Donovan J. Arnold

From: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
To: viz <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Researchers say aerosols from small volcanic eruptions could cool climate

Altruism exists, I just found it seemingly inconsistent that Donovan was belly aching about too much greed in the world on one thread and then in a separate thread bemoaning about Obamacare's negative affect on his own wallet and him not getting anything in return from it.  In some cases and unfortunately, greed can produce some very negative results.  In other cases, it can be leveraged into positive results.

In short, 'The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed - for lack of a better word - is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind.' - Gordon Gekko

:-)

-Scott

From: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm
To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com; donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; art.deco.studios at gmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Researchers say aerosols from small volcanic eruptions could cool climate
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 01:24:54 -0700

In part, Scott wrote:
“You can call them greedy and selfish and what not, but it is human nature to care more about your and your families needs rather than sacrificing your money for the supposed good of *everyone* else.  And calling them greedy and selfish isn't going change anything one iota.”

Ahh, clearly Scott has more of an Hobbesian perspective than do those who value and practice altruism.  Fortunately for the world, neuroscientists have shown that altruism actually exists – at least in some of us -- and that posterior superior temporal cortex functions differently in some people than in others, else humanity would be doomed, IMHO.  Imagine where humanity would be were it not for altruism!

It’s pretty convenient, though, and somewhat self-serving, it seems to me, to try to present greed and selfishness as simply “human nature” rather discussing altruism as something to strive for for the betterment of individuals and the human race . . . as something that absolutely is just as much “human nature” as some argue are selfishness and greed.

I don’t dispute that too many people, particularly in capitalistic societies, are motivated by personal greed & selfishness; what I reject is some notion that greed & selfishness are inevitable consequences of the human condition and should be accepted . . . and acceptable.

JMHO,
Saundra
Moscow, ID

Shall we make a new rule of life from tonight:  always try to be a little kinder than necessary.
~ Sir James M. Barrie

From:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Scott Dredge
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:19 PM
To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; art.deco.studios at gmail.com; viz
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Researchers say aerosols from small volcanic eruptions could cool climate

I agree - that is the reality with this (and most other things).  I also agree that turning it into an economic problem for those causing it was resolve it.  That's the tough hurdle to overcome and that's why people are fighting it so much because costing them money causes them immediate pain whereas global warming - at most - might cause them discomfort when and only when they're outside of their own climate controlled environment.

You can call them greedy and selfish and what not, but it is human nature to care more about your and your families needs rather than sacrificing your money for the supposed good of *everyone* else.  And calling them greedy and selfish isn't going change anything one iota.

-Scott

Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 12:22:40 -0700
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Researchers say aerosols from small volcanic eruptions could cool climate
To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com; art.deco.studios at gmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
If you want to solve the global warming problem turn it into an economic problem for those causing it and it will resolve itself. 

When slaves were dying in huge numbers on the ships brought over from Africa, they reduced the number of deaths by turning it into an economic problem. Instead of paying the shippers for every slave that walked on to the ship in Africa, they paid them for only the slaves that were able to walk off the ship in America. Suddenly, the death rate of slaves brought over dropped in half. No other regulations regarding treatment of slaves was nearly as successful in reducing deaths of slaves in transport. 

Reduce tax breaks or withhold federal aid to areas where the air quality drops. Because it is an economic problem, solutions would be found by every community to reduce air pollution without any other regulations or laws to meet. Place a pollution tariff on countries that don't meet air quality standards, and people in China would soon be able to breath.

The reality is, there is no incentive, and nobody considers it their problem. And until it is personally their problem they won't do anything about it. 

Donovan J. Arnold

From:Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; art.deco.studios at gmail.com; viz <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:53 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Researchers say aerosols from small volcanic eruptions could cool climate

Correct - and ridding the Earth of the human parasites that are infesting it might be in the best interest of the planet as it seemed to be doing just fine before human beings arrived on the scene.  So it all depends on what your end goal is and I'm assuming (but correct me if I'm wrong) that you want a healthy balance for the planet and most of the life forms presently inhabiting it. There may not be a perfect solution to achieve this so it my be wise to approach this as a 'best effort' along with all the necessary trade offs required to achieve this end goal.

-Scott
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 10:42:53 -0700
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Researchers say aerosols from small volcanic eruptions could cool climate
To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com; art.deco.studios at gmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Well if we are just looking for something that will put us out of our misery quickly, death would accomplish this task most efficiently. 

From:Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
To: art.deco.studios at gmail.com; viz <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Researchers say aerosols from small volcanic eruptions could cool climate

Yes - if cooling the climate is healthier for the planet versus acid rain.  Pick your poison depending on whether you want something that puts you out of your misery as soon as possible or not.
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 10:02:53 -0700
From: art.deco.studios at gmail.com
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Researchers say aerosols from small volcanic eruptions could cool climate

Let's see.

In order to try to produce a cooler climate, we're going to produce more acid rain?

w.
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 11:55 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:
http://www.canada.com/technology/Researchers+aerosols+from+small+volcanic+eruptions+could+cool/6889603/story.html

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Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
art.deco.studios at gmail.com

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List services made available by First Step Internet,
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              http://www.fsr.net/
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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