[Vision2020] A 2nd amendment argument against the NRA plan

[Joe Campbell]

Thanks, Gary. This is a nice article. Two comments, since I haven't
finished the article and this is out of my area of expertise.

1/ Mass shootings seem to be on the rise, maybe even since Aurora. Maybe
that is a false perception on my part but the comparative number of mass
shootings here as opposed to those in other countries is noticeable.

2/ I don't see the collection of semiautomatics as an issue. As folks note,
MOST who own semiautomatics are law abiding; more likely than not they know
how to handle guns, have gun safes, etc. It would be unwise to demand that
people turn in guns and some kind of buy-back program would need to be
implemented. The best you can do perhaps is a/ encourage folks to turn-in
their automatic weapons, and b/ confiscate weapons discovered during
criminal investigations. And we'd have to do some economic studies to see
whether the buy-back would be cost effective. Many communities have
buy-back programs, so my guess is that they are cost effective but I don't
know.

There was a NYT article about reducing crime in NYC. The key insight --
according to the article -- was that most crimes are crimes of opportunity.
If you eliminate the "low-hanging fruit" most crimes are eliminated. We
should find a policy with a limited impact on law-abiding citizens who are
careful with their firearms yet make crimes of opportunity more difficult.

3/ Obviously, as you've noted before, education is going to play a big role
here, too. We need to let folks know that guns should be protected, educate
people about the importance of gun safes, etc.


On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Gary Crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com>wrote:

> **
> An interesting and informative article on the topic de jour from a
> different perspective:
>
>
> http://kontradictions.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/why-not-renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-well-ill-tell-you/
> Many thanks to the off-list participant who sent this to me. It sums up
> the problem (or lack there of) far better then I ever could.
>
> g
>
>  *From:* Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 23, 2012 12:56 PM
> *To:* Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Subject:* [Vision2020] A 2nd amendment argument against the NRA plan
>
> We've noted some specific criticisms of the NRA plan, raised by Saundra,
> Sunil, and others. Here is a general argument against the NRA plan which
> rests on some but not all of the specific criticisms. By the "NRA plan," I
> mean the plan to deal with our gun violence problem by putting armed forces
> in our schools (and presumably other public venues).
>
> Since it is the NRA plan, if it is a good plan, it should preserve and be
> consistent with our 2nd amendment rights. Those rights are based on the
> need for protection of either of two forms: (a) protection against
> tyrannical governments as well as (b) the protection of your life, your
> interests, and the lives and interests of your family and friends. Thus,
> the NRA plan is justified by appeal to the 2nd amendment to the extent that
> it is based on and secures these type-a and type-b protections. Will the
> NRA better protect us from the threat of tyrannical governments or the
> threats of mass murderers, spree shooters, and other lunatics?
>
> It is far from clear that the NRA plan will protect us from mass murderers
> and spree shooters and there is good reason to think that it will cause
> more harm. The fact is that these folks are SUICIDAL as well as homicidal.
> Until it can be shown that the NRA plan will protect us from harm rather
> than lead us to more harm it should not be taken seriously.
>
> What about the need for semi-automatic weapons in order to form militias
> against a tyrannical government? Given this, we need a plan that won't put
> restrictions on semi-automatic weapons. Yet I don't see how putting armed
> government forces in every school in the country is going to increase the
> possibility of forming a militia to overtake a tyrannical government. It
> strikes me that forming a police state within the school system is exactly
> the wrong thing to do if your concern is that your government is taking
> away your freedom and is on the verge of becoming a tyranny.
>
> Best, Joe
>
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