[Vision2020] The Petition

Tue Dec 18 23:04:42 PST 2012

These shootings don't just happen spur of the moment.  They are planned 
and prepared for for a long time beforehand.  If the people that commit 
these atrocities didn't have guns readily available, they would have 
stolen them or bought them on the black market.  If these guys had 
really wanted to make their statements or whatever they thought they 
were doing, they could have made pipe bombs or a few molotov cocktails 
from common household chemicals.  They could have ran their victims over 
with a vehicle.  They could have terrorised them with a chainsaw, or set 
the school on fire.

The sad fact is that the price we would have to pay to truly protect 
ourselves from these kinds of incidents is just too damned big.  We 
would have to give up too many of our liberties for too little gain.  
Meanwhile, orders of magnitudes more people will die from cancer, heart 
attacks, traffic accidents, and other common causes.

The same thing goes for protecting ourselves from terrorists. It's too 
costly, both in money and in civil liberties, and all we've done is made 
it worse.

I don't know what the answer is.  I just have an ugly feeling that 
whatever gestates from this current climate of fear and outrage will be 
worse than the current situation.  The Law of Unintended Consequences is 
real and should be given due respect.  We shouldn't just jump at the 
nearest boogie man, whether it's assault weapons or large magazines, 
without giving it the careful thought it requires.  I doubt we are in a 
position to have that conversation on a national stage right now.

In both cases (school shootings and terrorist attacks) the root causes 
are complex and are for the most part being ignored. Another sad fact is 
that in this world of sound bites and instant Internet memes no 
politician is going to look at the real causes. They will look for the 
low-hanging fruit, and pretend it's more than just putting a bandaid on 
a gaping wound.

Paul

On 12/18/2012 09:20 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:
> Matt,
>
> This sounds sensible. Again, I don't have a "plan" about what to do. 
> More interested in exploring solutions -- and this does just that. I 
> like the idea of stronger background checks.
>
> Note too that if you think of the latest episodes of gun violence -- 
> the ones we've all heard about at least -- gun theft did not play a 
> role. Most of the shooters were young, as well. In general, the school 
> shooters were young and required their guns from family members, or 
> purchased them themselves. These are not folks who are stealing guns.
>
> Joe
>
> On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 9:06 PM, Matt Decker <mattd2107 at hotmail.com 
> <mailto:mattd2107 at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Joe,
>
>     I believe some want to ban these guns but allow current owners to
>     be grandfathered in. This could allow these guns to be on the
>     streets for years to come. I agree with stronger regulation into
>     the future owners of guns. Maybe a longer waiting period along
>     with stronger background checks. Classes or prior military would
>     help as well.
>
>     Matt
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     From: philosopher.joe at gmail.com <mailto:philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
>     Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 20:06:10 -0800
>     To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com <mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>     CC: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>     Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The Petition
>
>     This makes no sense. Just to use an example, if you banned assault
>     rifles, no one could steal them. I'm not saying that's what we
>     should do. But we should look at ALL possible solutions. Again,
>     research Australia and gun control. Best, Joe
>
>     On Dec 18, 2012, at 7:58 PM, Donovan Arnold
>     <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
>     <mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>         They steal the guns. So I don't think the laws would change
>         the situation, unless you ban their production.
>         Donovan J. Arnold
>
>         *From:* Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com
>         <mailto:philosopher.joe at gmail.com>>
>         *To:* Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
>         <mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>>
>         *Cc:* Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com
>         <mailto:thansen at moscow.com>>; Moscow Vision 2020
>         <vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>
>         *Sent:* Tuesday, December 18, 2012 7:49 PM
>         *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] The Petition
>
>         Some form of gun control has got to be part of the solution.
>         And I believe all the guns used in recent shootings were
>         legally purchased. That's why some form of gun control has got
>         to be part of the solution. Australia did it, so can we
>
>         On Dec 18, 2012, at 7:11 PM, Donovan Arnold
>         <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
>         <mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>             Gun laws are not the answer to this problem. Not allowing
>             for the public release of the gunman's name would go
>             further then gun laws, as they usually do it for fame.
>             Education of staff, students, and community members, and
>             better protection of schools would also help. This kid did
>             not get the guns legally, and no reasonable restrictive
>             gun law would have prevented it. There are a host of other
>             things that would have helped though.
>             Donovan J. Arnold
>
>             *From:* Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com
>             <mailto:thansen at moscow.com>>
>             *To:* Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com
>             <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>
>             *Sent:* Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:54 PM
>             *Subject:* [Vision2020] The Petition
>
>             <image.jpeg>
>
>
>             Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
>             "Moscow Cares"
>             http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/>
>
>             Tom Hansen
>             Moscow, Idaho
>
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