[Vision2020] How Many More . . .

[Wayne Price]

Remember this discussion about not having to worry about "lists" and  
the government compiling them IF Romney wins the election in November.

For instance, the program currently underway to list and gather data   
on some 1.5 million illegal immigrants that came to the US and are  
now, by virtue of an
executive order,  going to be allowed to stay in the US, if they meet  
certain criteria such as how old they were when they illegally came to  
the US, how long they've been here, etc, etc.

Now, it's NOT a law, not passed by Congress, so IF Romney wins in  
November and gets sworn in in January and the executive order goes  
away,  do you think
ICE and the US Justice Department won't use those list to find and  
deport the 1.5 self-identified illegal aliens?

Wayne







On Aug 18, 2012, at 2:02 PM, Gary Crabtree wrote:

> Hey it's you and hanson that are suggesting that the compilation of  
> lists would be a swell idea, not I. I assure you I am quite relaxed.
>
> Since you bring up "administrative burden," what kind of burden is  
> it likely to be to locate, record, and keep track of the  
> approximately 270 million privately held firearms currently  
> circulating in the United States, many of which are going to be held  
> by otherwise law abiding private citizens who are likely to be more  
> than a little underwhelmed with your firearms and the IRS scheme?
>
> The next question of course would be should this highly dubious  
> exercise in overreach be achieved, what next? How will it prevent  
> the tragedies we have recently witnessed? As far as the media has  
> been able to ascertain the firearms used were purchased legally, at  
> least from the sellers perspective. (Lying on the 4473 form  
> regarding ones mental health is quite beyond their control) What  
> good would it do for an IRS agent to have been aware of the  
> transaction? Do you believe that a well timed audit would have saved  
> the day?
>
> Your plan would create a great deal more bureaucracy, waste  
> significant amounts of taxpayer dollars, turn many law abiding gun  
> owners into criminals at the stroke of a pen and do next to nothing  
> to solve the perceived problem.
>
> Liberal do something (especially something ineffective) disease run  
> amok.
>
> g
>
> From: Kenneth Marcy
> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 12:09 PM
> To: Moscow Vision2020
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .
>
> On 8/18/2012 9:31 AM, Gary Crabtree wrote:
>> Since you are absolutely convinced that detailed lists are totally  
>> benign, let's make available a roster of everyone who has ever  
>> sought or been given treatment for any and every mental health  
>> condition? After all, it's all for the greater good and what could  
>> possibly go wrong? Why track a tool when you can track the  
>> potential user?
>>
>> Heck this detailed list idea is so good why not expand it to  
>> organizations, books, movies, and music. Absolutely anything that  
>> might even hint at inspiring violence. I'm sure that a community  
>> conscious individual such as your self couldn't possibly object to  
>> a little bit of scrutiny in exchange for a small measure of  
>> potential safety, right?
>
> Computer science types are watchful that they don't trap themselves  
> into attempting to compute something that would take very long  
> periods of time (longer than a human lifetime, for example) to  
> compute. Sometimes a different algorithm can render a problem more  
> computationally tractable, and sometimes not.
>
> Analogously, making the lists you are suggesting here would be an  
> administrative burden not unlike attempting to calculate every facet  
> of everything. Practically, i.e., within reasonable time frames, not  
> to mention with any sort of logical clarity, it just can not be  
> accomplished.
>
> Let's take, for example, your phrase "absolutely anything that might  
> even hint at inspiring violence." OK, let's consider just a triple  
> of tomes: the Old Testament, the New Testament, and the Qur'an, and  
> those who read and adhere to one or more of them in some fashion.  
> The administrative result is a list of Jews, Christians, and  
> Muslims, three groups of people about whom it is true to suggest  
> that some among them have been inspired to violence by what they  
> read in one or more of those volumes.
>
> What are we to do with such a list of people? Declare them all  
> mentally ill, and then refer them for psychiatric treatment? Oh, by  
> the way, how is society's supply of secular humanist psychiatrists  
> and religious cult deprogrammers? Oops. Analogous to the  
> electronically ancient computer with one processor operating at a  
> slow clock speed, the process for accomplishing all that work would  
> take an unacceptably long time, and since we know that in advance of  
> starting such a process, we won't start the process.
>
> These practical considerations, plus the rights of people to pursue  
> the happiness of their own brands of insanity in the privacy of  
> their own homes, or places of worship, such as movie houses  
> screening Disney flicks, opera houses presenting Wagnerian almost  
> anything, or book clubs discussing romance novels with pink covers  
> and numbers on their spines, means that it is highly unlikely that  
> anytime soon anyone is going to attempt to pry a Bible from anyone  
> else's cold dead fingers. So, relax.
>
>
> Ken
>
>
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