[Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is Promoting . . .

Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Sun Aug 12 00:32:04 PDT 2012 

Scott,
 
I think it is very easy to keep guns out the hands of the wrong people. It is just that society doesn't want to. Making every gun traceable for example would allow federal prosecutors to crack down on those that buy and sell the guns to criminals and persons that should not be owning a gun. 
 
Donovan J. Arnold

From: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
To: godshatter at yahoo.com 
Cc: viz <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is Promoting . . .


Tom makes wrong assumptions about you and most everyone else?  I'm shocked! ;-)  I think conceal carry can be a good thing too.  But unfortunately it can also be a bad thing.  I'd also rather that you have the option of shooting back too. It's just tricky business to try and make and enforce laws that allow guns into the hands of responsible people and at the same time keep them out of the hands of irresponsible and violent prone kooks.

-Scott


Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 11:48:51 -0700
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is Promoting . . .



Despite Tom Hansen's assumptions, I don't really have a position on this topic, other than the simple positions that conceal carry can be a good thing and that someone who does so needs to be well trained and wise in their use of a weapon.

I just think it's an interesting thing to think about.  What would I do if I were in that theater and happened to have a weapon concealed on my person?  I'm still unsure about the answer to that.

I don't know that we *can* prevent things like this from happening without becoming something as a society that we'd rather not be.  Bad things happen.  Personally, I'd rather have the option of shooting back when they do.

Paul

On 08/11/2012 10:36 AM, Scott Dredge wrote:

Paul,
>
>I agree with some of your position, but just packing heat in itself isn't enough especially when you consider the 'frenzied crowd' part of the equation where panic takes over instead of cooler heads prevailing.  You'd really need someone who was combat trained or who had otherwise been involved in shootouts (police officer probably) who knew how to keep calm and when the proper time was to draw, aim, and fire to diffuse the whole chaotic scene.
>
>Columbine, Aurora, Virginia Tech to name a few were horrific and unexpected situations.  I think it's a tough problem to try and prevent these and / or stop them once they mayhem has started. :(
>
>-Scott
>
>
>Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 09:57:26 -0700
>From: godshatter at yahoo.com
>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is Promoting . . .
>
>
>
>Yes, you'd have to be damn sure about your line of fire.  Firing in the middle of a frenzied crowd running panicked for the exits would surely be asking for trouble.  However, it's my understanding that for a while during the shooting the shooter had complete control of the situation.  Anyone trying to leave was shot.  Many people were playing dead in the hopes they would  be passed over.  Firing on the shooter, even if he's in body armor, might distract him enough that some people might have made it to the exits.  Body armor doesn't make you invincible, depending on the armor and the caliber of the weapon used you might still have made an impact, since he'd still be hit by the blunt force of the bullet.  In this situation, though, you would probably also have been shot dead shortly after because he was so well prepared (vest, leggings, throat protector, groin protector, and a helmet with a visor).  Who knows?  Telling a loved one "when I
 start shooting, RUN for the exit and don't stop" might have worked.
>
>Most other shootings like this we've heard about haven't involved such a heavily armored assailant.  In fact, quite a few of them have taken place in areas where gun use is often restricted, such as in schools or on university campuses.  Harris and Kliebold wore T-shirts and cargo pants at Columbine.  A student who had happened to have smuggled a gun into the school might have been able to have had a real impact on that event.
>
>An interesting thing to think about, in my opinion.  Apparently, that opinion is not shared on this list.
>
>Paul
>
>
>On 08/11/2012 08:13 AM, Art Deco wrote:
>
>It's hard to think of something more foolish than someone or ones with a hand gun in a disorganized, panicky crowd trying to shoot a person with a automatic weapon shielded by body armor.  How many more victims would be added to the final body count?
>>
>>Didn't something like this happen in the Moscow Massacre?
>>
>>w.
>>
>>
>>On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>Tom,
>>> 
>>>While your wife if shopping Tri-State, you should be to. I mean come on, support your community why don't you. :) 
>>> 
>>>Donovan J. Arnold
>>>
>>>
>>>From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
>>>To: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> 
>>>Cc: "<vision2020 at moscow.com>" <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
>>>Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 6:47 PM 
>>>
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is Promoting . . .
>>>
>>>
>>>You may very well be right, Sunil.  
>>>
>>>
>>>It's just a habit I have acquired while in the service.  Trust those around you, but keep your powder dry.
>>>
>>>
>>>I saw the poster at Tri-State.  And, as I've said before, this is the first time I have seen such an advertisement in Moscow.  I checked a few things out, such as its website, phone number, etc. etc. etc. (Hey, I needed something to pass the time while my wife was shopping at Tri-State).
>>>
>>>
>>>The more I dug, the more red flags I found.  The more red flags I found, the more I dug.  I have so many info sources, concerning the NFT Academy, bookmarked for reference I am thinking of discarding half of 'em.
>>>
>>>
>>>Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>
>>>
>>>Tom Hansen
>>>Moscow, Idaho
>>>
>>>
>>>"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>>>
>>>
>>>- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>>>
>>>
>>>On Aug 10, 2012, at 6:19 PM, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>I've taken such a class and in the past had a concealed weapon permit; who knows, I may again. I don't think this class is a big deal.
>>>>
>>>>Sunil 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>From: thansen at moscow.com
>>>>Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 17:41:58 -0700
>>>>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is Promoting . . .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The primary reason this caught my eye . . .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I have lived here in Moscow for just over twenty years.  The is the FIRST time I have seen concealed-weapon classes openly advertised in town.  Couple that up with the increasing paranoia, as a result of the recent instances in Aurora (Colorado) and Milwaukee (Wisconsin), and I feel I have a right to be curious.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>BTW, the NFT Academy website has only been in existence since April 2012 and was not publicly released until June 12, 2012 (TWO MONTHS AGO).
>>>>http://fiddlerstudios.com/created-by-fs/announcing-the-national-firearms-training-academy-website/
>>>>  
>>>>I have more info to share, concerning the NFT Academy and its website, but let's see where this thread leads.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Tom Hansen
>>>>Moscow, Idaho
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:09 PM, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Something legal? The nerve! Next they'll be selling guns!
>>>>>
>>>>>Sunil 
>>>>>
>>>>>From: thansen at moscow.com
>>>>>Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 14:24:56 -0700
>>>>>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>Subject: [Vision2020] Look See What Tri-State is Promoting . . .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Seeya round town, Moscow.
 
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
 
"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."

 
- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007) 
>>>>>======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net/ mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com ======================================================= 
>>>>=======================================================
>>>>>List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>              http://www.fsr.net/
>>>>>         mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>=======================================================
>>>>======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net/ mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com ======================================================= 
>>>=======================================================
>>>>List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>              http://www.fsr.net/
>>>>         mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>=======================================================
>>>
>>>=======================================================
>>>List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>              http://www.fsr.net/
>>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>=======================================================
>>>
>>>
>>>=======================================================
>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>               http://www.fsr.net/
>>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>=======================================================
>>>
>>
>>
>>-- 
>>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
>>art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net/ mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================
>
>======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net/ mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================

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