[Vision2020] DVD
lfalen
lfalen at turbonet.com
Mon Nov 7 11:16:31 PST 2011
I think people are engaging in wishful thinking here. I received both, but I would be extremely surprised if there was any connection between the two.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: rhayes at frontier.com
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 11:29:14 -0700
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] DVD
> I received both the DVD and the post card. How did I get on THAT mailing list?
> Roger Hayes
> Moscow
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: vision2020-request at moscow.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 9:26:59 PM
> Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 65, Issue 62
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Freeze Church DVD mailing (Tom Hansen)
> 2. Occupy Idaho (Tom Hansen)
> 3. Re: Freeze Church DVD mailing (Paul Rumelhart)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 18:38:42 -0700
> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
> To: Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com>
> Cc: Vision 2020 <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Freeze Church DVD mailing
> Message-ID: <9604A885-6697-40D9-9B97-B919A081B0F3 at moscow.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Maybe this should be brought to the attention of then-president of the Postcard Hoax Fund and go-between for the fund and MPD . . . Walter Steed. Any bets on how soon this would be shelved and forgotten.
>
> It should be noted, however, that, in my opinion, when taken into comparison, the vocabulary between . . .
>
> The Freeze Church website
> http://freezechurch.org/page12.html
>
> And the "postcard"
> http://www.moscowcares.com/hero/postcard_hoax.htm
>
> . . are remarkably similar.
>
> Hmmm.
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 4, 2011, at 6:26 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I wonder if MPD will look into said question...
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
> > Excellent question, Darrell.
> >
> > I did not receive the "postcard". Nor did I receive the DVD. It would be interesting to compare their respective mailing lists. It might be a good idea for anybody that has received the DVD to report it to the Moscow Police Department.
> >
> > The offer remains in affect . . .
> >
> > http://www.moscowcares.com/hero/postcard_hoax.htm
> >
> > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> >
> > Tom Hansen
> > Moscow, Idaho
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 4, 2011, at 5:56 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> It would be interesting to know if the same people receiving this DVD are the people that got the Bouma postcard last year.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 5:47 PM, Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:
> >> What a cruel way to try to make a point. I know many people who do not believe in abortion who would never, ever stoop to this coercive behavior. If people in the Freeze Church choose this message as a way to make their point, shame on them. It certainly explains a lot about their lack of compassion for those who might disagree.
> >>
> >> Sue H.
> >>
> >> From: Darrell Keim
> >> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 4:56 PM
> >> To: Paul Rumelhart
> >> Cc: Vision 2020
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Freeze Church DVD mailing
> >>
> >> I watched the video. Make no mistake, Paul-this video does not explain their beliefs on anything but abortion. Nor does it back those beliefs with scripture. It is strictly an anti-abortion video.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> "The same as all the rest of the crackpots in the area that claim to have that ultimate truth that no one else does, and if you don't believe everything they say (and tacitly: give them money), then you are SOL for eternity."
> >>
> >> You seem to take great pains to denigrate true believers as if they were evil conspirators set on bringing down society for their own twisted pleasures and financial gain.
> >>
> >> This particular group doesn't strike me as living high on the hog, so I wouldn't classify them with the multimillion dollar televangelists. They look more like a bunch of regular Joes that presumably truly believe what they are saying, and they care strongly enough about it to scrape enough together to mass-mail DVD's explaining their beliefs. I don't find that so onerous, and it can even be seen as a caring gesture if you look at it from that perspective.
> >>
> >> That being said, their beliefs are so dissimilar to my own beliefs that it's like we are on two different planets trying to communicate without knowing the others language. My own beliefs don't require evangelization, and I often wish that other religions didn't require it, either. Nevertheless, I accept their evangelism in the same way that I accept my friends rantings about the evils of Apple or my other friends in-depth descriptions of the design and construction of bee hive boxes: resignedly. Presumably that's how my friends accept my constant discussion of various at-home programming projects I'm working on or my rantings about climate science.
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >> =======================================================
> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> http://www.fsr.net
> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> =======================================================
> >>
> >> =======================================================
> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> http://www.fsr.net
> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> =======================================================
> >>
> >> =======================================================
> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> http://www.fsr.net
> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> =======================================================
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 19:34:02 -0700
> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
> To: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Cc: Lois Blackburn <loisb at q.com>, Kathy Judson <ponysnpups at gmail.com>,
> Friends of the Clearwater <foc at friendsoftheclearwater.org>, Fritz
> Knorr <fritzknorr at gmail.com>, B J Swanson <bjswanson at gmail.com>,
> Jeanne McHale <jeannemchale at hotmail.com>, "\"Fiddlin' Big Al\"
> Chidester" <alchidester at juno.com>, Brett Haverstick
> <bhaverstick at yahoo.com>, Marilyn Beckett <marilynbeckett at gmail.com>,
> Cheryl Halverson <basketmakeart at yahoo.com>, Joann Muneta
> <Jmuneta at uidaho.edu>, Jacqueline Bradish <jbradish at roadrunner.com>,
> Penni Cyr <cpenni at gmail.com>, Emily Poor <emilypoor at gmail.com>, Wild
> Idaho Rising Tide <wild.idaho.rising.tide at gmail.com>, Helen Yost
> <helen.yost at vandals.uidaho.edu>, "Dr. Dinah Zeiger"
> <dzeiger at uidaho.edu>
> Subject: [Vision2020] Occupy Idaho
> Message-ID: <1D96861C-3609-4CBC-8466-31E7EC15C494 at moscow.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Courtesy of Idaho Public Television's "Dialogue"
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6VGkRkJOYw
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 21:22:57 -0700
> From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> To: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
> Cc: Vision 2020 <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Freeze Church DVD mailing
> Message-ID: <4EB4BA21.9010504 at yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
>
> Help me here, I'm trying to follow. Sending out a DVD isn't a criminal
> act, right? So you're hoping that if the same people that received the
> DVD also received the postcard when it was mailed out last year or
> whenever that you could then prove that it was the Freeze Church people
> that sent out the postcard? And sending the postcard was a criminal act
> because it was threatening, right? Your link doesn't go into a lot of
> detail.
>
> I doubt that the similarity of address lists would be enough to convict
> someone. Besides, it would be really hard to prove that they were in
> fact identical lists, unless you had some way of getting that info and
> verifying it.
>
> I'd also like to point out that I don't actually find the postcard
> threatening. It's more akin to a sign in the forest saying that if you
> continue to walk along this path, you will likely be eaten by a grue.
> That's scary, sure, but it's not threatening. Besides, I don't believe
> that grues exist and are freely roaming the forests nearby, anyway.
> Actually, you could look at the sign as a misguided warning trying to
> help you, albeit from a species of animal only found in an old video
> game as far as I know. The same reasoning applies to the postcard, at
> least in my opinion.
>
> I know I'm going to get a shit-ton of crap foisted upon me because I'm
> going against the agreed-upon group-think here, but if we really were a
> community that was proud of it's culturally diverse citizens as your web
> page claims then we would accept that others have vastly different
> opinions about religion than our own and not make it into such a big
> deal when they go on a rant.
>
> I could agree with taking away their tax-exempt status because of this
> if it were proven that the church leadership sent the postcard out. I
> haven't watched the DVD yet, so I don't know if they are using it to
> endorse a candidate or not. If they want to be political, then they
> shouldn't receive tax exemptions since they are predicated upon their
> not getting involved in politics.
>
> Paul
>
> On 11/04/2011 06:38 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:
> > Maybe this should be brought to the attention of then-president of the
> > Postcard Hoax Fund and go-between for the fund and MPD . . . Walter
> > Steed. Any bets on how soon this would be shelved and forgotten.
> >
> > It should be noted, however, that, in my opinion, when taken into
> > comparison, the vocabulary between . . .
> >
> > The Freeze Church website
> > http://freezechurch.org/page12.html
> >
> > And the "postcard"
> > http://www.moscowcares.com/hero/postcard_hoax.htm
> >
> > . . . are remarkably similar.
> >
> > Hmmm.
> >
> > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> >
> > Tom Hansen
> > Moscow, Idaho
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 4, 2011, at 6:26 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I wonder if MPD will look into said question...
> >>
> >> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com
> >> <mailto:thansen at moscow.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Excellent question, Darrell.
> >>
> >> I did not receive the "postcard". Nor did I receive the DVD. It
> >> would be interesting to compare their respective mailing lists.
> >> It might be a good idea for anybody that has received the DVD to
> >> report it to the Moscow Police Department.
> >>
> >> The offer remains in affect . . .
> >>
> >> http://www.moscowcares.com/hero/postcard_hoax.htm
> >> Seeya round town, Moscow.
> >>
> >> Tom Hansen
> >> Moscow, Idaho
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Nov 4, 2011, at 5:56 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com
> >> <mailto:keim153 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> It would be interesting to know if the same people receiving
> >>> this DVD are the people that got the Bouma postcard last year.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 5:47 PM, Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com
> >>> <mailto:suehovey at moscow.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> What a cruel way to try to make a point. I know many people
> >>> who do not believe in abortion who would never, ever stoop
> >>> to this coercive behavior. If people in the Freeze Church
> >>> choose this message as a way to make their point, shame on
> >>> them. It certainly explains a lot about their lack of
> >>> compassion for those who might disagree.
> >>> Sue H.
> >>> *From:* Darrell Keim <mailto:keim153 at gmail.com>
> >>> *Sent:* Friday, November 04, 2011 4:56 PM
> >>> *To:* Paul Rumelhart <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
> >>> *Cc:* Vision 2020 <mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Freeze Church DVD mailing
> >>> I watched the video. Make no mistake, Paul-this video does
> >>> not explain their beliefs on anything but abortion. Nor
> >>> does it back those beliefs with scripture. It is strictly
> >>> an anti-abortion video.
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Paul Rumelhart
> >>> <godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> "The same as all the rest of the crackpots in the area
> >>> that claim to have that ultimate truth that no one else
> >>> does, and if you don't believe everything they say (and
> >>> tacitly: give them money), then you are SOL for eternity."
> >>>
> >>> You seem to take great pains to denigrate true believers
> >>> as if they were evil conspirators set on bringing down
> >>> society for their own twisted pleasures and financial gain.
> >>>
> >>> This particular group doesn't strike me as living high
> >>> on the hog, so I wouldn't classify them with the
> >>> multimillion dollar televangelists. They look more like
> >>> a bunch of regular Joes that presumably truly believe
> >>> what they are saying, and they care strongly enough
> >>> about it to scrape enough together to mass-mail DVD's
> >>> explaining their beliefs. I don't find that so onerous,
> >>> and it can even be seen as a caring gesture if you look
> >>> at it from that perspective.
> >>>
> >>> That being said, their beliefs are so dissimilar to my
> >>> own beliefs that it's like we are on two different
> >>> planets trying to communicate without knowing the others
> >>> language. My own beliefs don't require evangelization,
> >>> and I often wish that other religions didn't require it,
> >>> either. Nevertheless, I accept their evangelism in the
> >>> same way that I accept my friends rantings about the
> >>> evils of Apple or my other friends in-depth descriptions
> >>> of the design and construction of bee hive boxes:
> >>> resignedly. Presumably that's how my friends accept my
> >>> constant discussion of various at-home programming
> >>> projects I'm working on or my rantings about climate
> >>> science.
> >>>
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>> =======================================================
> >>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>> <mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >>> =======================================================
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> =======================================================
> >>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>> <mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >>> =======================================================
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> =======================================================
> >>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>> =======================================================
> >>
> >>
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
> End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 65, Issue 62
> ******************************************
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
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