[Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post Register
lfalen
lfalen at turbonet.com
Fri Nov 4 14:08:50 PDT 2011
In my opinion your first two paragraphs valid points.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: "Art Deco" deco at moscow.com
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:17:55 -0700
To: "Vision 2020" Vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post Register
> Hardly any rational person would argue that there is not room for improvement to efficiency and reduction of waste in many public [and private organizations].
>
> However, the Idaho Pork Report is not a search for legitimate lack of efficiency and reducible waste, but and ideological attack on many public services. This organization is entitled to their values and the opinions that follow from them, but it patently dishonest to label the programs attacked in whole as pork. Some of these programs may have problems and could and should be improved, but their importance and in many cases necessities to many people is hardly questionable.
>
> For a bunch of hypocrites bragging of their Christian beliefs, it is really telling what their worldview would do to the less fortunate and those that wish to succeed by having the opportunity for a quality education.
>
> I am glad this report is a pdf file. If it was printed, I hope it was printed on Charmin so that it would at least have some justifiable use.
>
> w.
>
>
> From: Donovan Arnold
> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 2:43 AM
> To: Sue Hovey ; Jay Borden ; Tom Hansen ; Shirley Ringo
> Cc: Vision 2020
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post Register
>
>
> Sue,
>
> Excellent points! I actually had some respect for this report until I read it. It is clear the people that wrote it are use to writing at a junior high level and have no understanding of health, statistics, methodology, and lack basic logical and critical thinking skills. But perhaps that is their target audience. I don't think the writers are well educated if at all in the fields they are speaking about. It is clear their research involved little more than five minutes on a google or an interview with another person as equally clueless about the topic they are addressing.
>
> I find it interesting that their agenda only targets things like social programs for the poor and public education. They don't hunt for waste in programs designed to benefit wealthier citizens, or the impact of cutting certain programs results in greater long term cost to taxpayers. For example, spending $1 on publicly funded preventive health-care can save $50 or more in future Medicaid or Medicare costs.
>
> I think the Onion should consider printing it. "Meridian Mom and Her Four Friends Solve State's Budget Woes" Has anyone sent them a link?
>
> Donovan Arnold
>
>
> From: Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>
> To: Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>; Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>; Shirley Ringo <ringoshirl at moscow.com>
> Cc: Vision 2020 <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 1:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post Register
>
>
> Thanks. I’m reading it just now and am more than a bit appalled anyone would use it as good evidence of proof of waste. And what a stellar group who signed on to it: Bob Forrey, Darrell Deide, Marv Hagedorn, Karen McGee, Ralph Smeed, Steve Symms and a host of others. If I had to choose the one I most respect for her/his integrity, I’d probably take Ralph Smeed, but he’s dead, so I’ll take Steve Symms. And I’m not among the few who think of him as a paragon of virtue. So I must admit I approached this report with a genuine bias, and Roger, I can’t imagine why in the world you promoted it as good evidence of waste in govt. For example:
>
> 1. They faulted Health & Welfare for it’s failure to push enough people out of Medicaid and for not knowing the number who go off each year. The implication is there are a bunch of deadbeats getting these services when they should be out fending for themselves. According to the group, Medicaid is now a hammock, not a safety net. As one whose daughter has been a recipient of Medicaid services for most of her life, I can attest to the fact that her status is evaluated EVERY YEAR and an annual determination is made by Health & Welfare. It’s true, it is no longer a safety net. There’s a hole of such magnitude that disabled adults have two options: die quickly or be lucky enough to have family financially able to care for them. Recipients have lost medical services for glasses, hearing aides, counseling, assistive devices—items many of them sorely need in order to live a productive life or to keep them from harming themselves and others.
>
> 2. In regard to the SCHIP Program—the one that provides health insurance for poor children; the one the Idaho Legislature continues to defund, despite its national record of success in providing medical help to poor children. Here’s a quote that should make the group’s motives very clear, “Additionally, experts who have studied SCHIP find little evidence that providing government insurance to people improves health outcomes.” And their “experts” who made this revelation—the same ones who wrote the report. The link cited takes one back to the report website and offers no other evidence.
>
> 3. Fit and Fall Proof. This is an exercise program for seniors and others who need it as a rehabilitation service. Gritman offers a number of sessions at the Wellness Center. I’m in one. They are really very helpful for those of us who, as we age, can benefit from exercise which builds muscle strength and self confidence. Some of the literature I just received indicates that Idaho seniors are injured in falls that require medical care in higher numbers than the national average, so one might think it would be a good service for the state to provide. The Freedom Foundation doesn’t like it because it cuts into private sector alternatives, but really it doesn’t. Some of us also have gym memberships, and many are are too physically fragile to benefit from the machines a gym traditionally provides. The report further states the program is a waste of money because there are more falls now than before the program started. Maybe so, but those data are from medical i!
njury
reports, not comparisons between folks in the program and folks who aren’t.
>
> 4. Childcare Programs. There is the quote that these programs are “rife with abuse,” but no citations to indicate such is the case in Idaho. Their claims fit right into the Idaho paradigm—don’t do anything to help young children or their parents, because in Idaho the legislators over the years repeatedly state, “young children should be at home with their mothers.” So we don’t mandate kindergartens nor do we accept federal money to improve early childhood education. Wish I could remember the name of the legislator who told a young unemployed mother if she needed help she ought to, “get right with her church.”
>
> 5. They use a lot of space discussing what they would call undeserved perks earned by Idaho State Employees, HIgher Education Personnel, and Public School Teachers. They’ve collected master agreements (which are now null and void because of the new laws) and cherry picked the pieces that indicate to them schools are simply rolling in money and their employees are stealing from taxpayers in many unethical ways. One example from Ponderay School District which was, until this year, fairly common in negotiated agreements, and certainly a common business practice; that of allowing current employees to move into new jobs as they come open, rather than advertise them publically. But the group from the Idaho Freedom Foundation claims this is not only unfair, but costly, because it takes “more qualified candidates who would cost the district less, out of the picture.” It’s moot now, but if I as an employee move into another position, that leaves my position vacant, and!
if both
the candidate and I qualified for the vacated position, it’s likely s/he qualifies for the one I leave. But the Idaho Freedom Foundation can’t be bothered with extrapolation.
>
> There’s a lot more. And I suppose there are some compelling issues concerning wasted resources, but taken as a whole, it’s disingenuous at best and often supplies questionable and patently false evidence to support its claims. It’s interesting reading though, because it appears to be the current bible upon which the Governor, Legislators, Tom Luna, and potentially local policy makers are positioning themselves.
>
> Jay and Tom, thanks for the link.
>
> Sue Hovey
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Jay Borden
> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 8:23 AM
> To: Sue Hovey
> Cc: Vision 2020
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post Register
>
> Here’s the link that goes directly to the .pdf file:
>
> http://opencda.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/4d28b5a3768b7.pdf.pdf
>
>
> Jay
>
> From: Sue Hovey [mailto:suehovey at moscow.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 11:32 PM
> To: Jay Borden
> Cc: Vision 2020
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post Register
>
> Jay, I don’t want to get into the exchange here. It’s gone sideways for too long. But what I would like to do is read the Idaho Pork Report. Do you have a link? And no, I haven’t read all the emails, but I did read one which indicated a problem with one that was given. Thanks for doing my work for me. I want to see what they consider the pork in public education.
>
> Sue H.
>
> From: Jay Borden
> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 8:04 PM
> To: Donovan Arnold ; Tom Hansen
> Cc: Vision 2020
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post Register
>
> Wow… just wow…
>
> 1) Would you care to provide any data as far as how much money is lost due to “businesses that take government money and flee the country”? I’ll never say never, (I’m a big fan of the bell curve) but without any other data to go on, my gut tells me that it doesn’t begin to hold a candle to general government waste. (I won’t even ask for 6 links… )
> 2) By your reasoning (poo-pooing the Pork Report (which, BTW, DOES provide references to where they found their data), I would then assume that the education system is in tip-top shape, and therefore has no places in which fraud, waste, or otherwise unnecessary spending is occurring?
> 3) Also by you reasoning, since “Idaho doesn’t spend any money on health care”, all the fraud and wasted money talked about in the report doesn’t actually exist? (Or, is it not actually fraud since (you claim) no money is actually spent in that category?)
>
>
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>
> From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 7:12 PM
> To: Jay Borden; Tom Hansen
> Cc: lfalen; Art Deco; Vision 2020
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post Register
>
> Jay,
>
> You wrote,
>
> " Didja actually READ the “2011 Pork Report”? 1/3 of the report deals with education…. the other 2/3’s deal with health care and public renewal and public works projects."
>
> Oh well, , yes, we certainly can call public health care pork too, can't we, I mean who needs that? But the point is kinda moot since Idaho doesn't spend money on public health care.
> You are also right about the government contracts, I looked on the Internet and there is no evidence of government contracts with businesses going bad. All the businesses that contract with the government are fully capable, don't lie, and always finish well under what they quoted. And certainly, never ever, has a business person completely made up the fact that they can produce something the government needed, taken the millions of dollars, and fled the country. It would never happen. Anyone that insists this is not that case definitely needs to supply at least 6 links to verify their claims, otherwise, it is just hogwash to believe such outlandish nonsense could happen. I am also one of those people that need proof via some website for everything regardless of how ridiculous taking the contrary side would sound to reason.
> Donovan Arnold
>
> From: Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
> To: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
> Cc: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>; Art Deco <deco at moscow.com>; Vision 2020 <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2011 6:41 PM
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post Register
> You have given a link for the DOD’s Contract division… I assume in the hopes that I would do the leg work for you… which is exactly what you (and others) lambast Roger for.
>
> I suggest one of the following:
> 1) Provide the data requested to back up the statement.
> 2) Recognize that opinions that lack factual data aren’t fact… they’re just OPINIONS.
>
> Jay
>
> From: Tom Hansen [mailto:thansen at moscow.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 5:13 PM
> To: Jay Borden
> Cc: Donovan Arnold; lfalen; Art Deco; Vision 2020
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post Register
>
> Mr. Borden -
>
> Not ALL contracts at the following link are success stories. The names Halliburton and Blackwater come to mind.
>
> And guess who pays the bills.
>
> http://www.defense.gov/Contracts/default.aspx
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 2, 2011, at 5:01 PM, "Jay Borden" <jborden at datawedge.com> wrote:
> 1) Where are your facts and figures (and how common it is) about how much the government loses on private businesses inability to fulfill government contract obligations?
> 2) A consumer votes with their feet… if a business winds up passing their errors onto to the customer, a customer is free to simply change vendors/providers and take their business to a more efficient enterprise.
> 3) Didja actually READ the “2011 Pork Report”? 1/3 of the report deals with education…. the other 2/3’s deal with health care and public renewal and public works projects.
>
>
> Jay
>
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Donovan Arnold
> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 3:56 PM
> To: lfalen; Art Deco; Vision 2020
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post Register
>
> Roger,
>
> In addition to the trillion dollar bailouts the taxpayers all the time have to pay for private business enterprises mistakes and inefficiencies. Businesses bid on government contracts and cannot fulfill the obligation and the taxpayer has to pay for it. This is common. And the consumer also has the costs of a business's errors passed on to them in products and services.
>
> As to the Idaho Pork Report, yeah, I guess if you are an Idaho Conservative Republican you would think there is a lot of government waste if you believe education has no real value. There are elementary, middle, and high schools in just about every town, some with many of them.
>
> Donovan Arnold
>
>
>
>
>
> From: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> To: Art Deco <deco at moscow.com>; Vision 2020 <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2011 11:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post Register
>
> I may have mistyped something. If you are really interested do a search on the Idaho Pork Report.
> Roger
> -----Original message-----
> From: "Art Deco" deco at moscow.com
> Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 19:06:01 -0700
> To: "Vision 2020" Vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post Register
>
> > This link is invalid.
> >
> >
> > From: lfalen
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 3:31 PM
> > To: Art Deco ; Vision 2020
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post Register
> >
> >
> > Check the Idaho Pork Report. You can find it at opencda.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/4d28b5aq3768b7.pdf.pdf
> > Roger
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: "Art Deco" deco at moscow.com
> > Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 13:36:23 -0700
> > To: "Vision 2020" Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post Register
> >
> > > Roger,
> > >
> > > Tell us exactly where and exactly how much there are in those places of "a lot of waste in state government and plenty of places cuts can be made."
> > >
> > > If you cannot do this, then you are just promulgating more Tea Bagger bullshit. You then are part of the problem, but not part of the solution.
> > >
> > > w.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: lfalen
> > > Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 11:15 AM
> > > To: Shirley Ringo ; Vision 2020
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post Register
> > >
> > >
> > > I think that there is a lot of waste in state government and plenty of places cuts can be made. I do not think that the care and treatment of the menally ill is one of them.
> > > Roger
> > > -----Original message-----
> > > From: "Shirley Ringo" ringoshirl at moscow.com
> > > Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 07:44:55 -0700
> > > To: "Vision 2020" vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > Subject: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post Register
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Visionaries:
> > > >
> > > > The Idaho Legislature's "cost containment" for Medicaid programs and help for those with disabilities will prove to be anything but that.
> > > >
> > > > Shirley
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Idaho's ugly 'new normal'
> > > >
> > > > Corey Taule
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Ugly, sad and potentially tragic as it was, the recent shootout between local law enforcement and Scott Daniel Parker wasn't surprising. The 911 call from Parker's mother indicated her son was mentally ill and in crisis. Unfortunately, we've been down that road before.
> > > >
> > > > In September 2010, a mentally ill man shot Ryan Mitchell in the back as he left a Pocatello coffee shop. The shooter, Gerald Durk Simpson, had been told a few months earlier that because of budget cuts, the state could no longer afford to treat his mental illness.
> > > >
> > > > That jibed with what the State Planning Council on Mental Health told Idaho's lawmakers in February 2010. Cutting mental health funding, this panel of experts said, would result in three things:
> > > >
> > > > - More suicides.
> > > >
> > > > - More violent encounters between the mentally ill and police.
> > > >
> > > > - More mentally ill folks landing in emergency rooms.
> > > >
> > > > A check with local law enforcement shows this panel knew what it was talking about. Bonneville County Coroner Jonathan Walker said suicides and attempts are up, something he attributes directly to a reduction in available services.
> > > >
> > > > Bonneville County Sheriff Paul Wilde noticed his deputies were dealing more frequently with the mentally ill. So, he checked the numbers. What Wilde discovered was startling. From January to October of 2008, officers responded to 61 calls concerning psychiatric episodes or suicide attempts. That same time period in 2009 resulted in 118 calls. That jumped to 139 last year. So far this year, officers have responded to 256 calls.
> > > >
> > > > Sometimes those calls result in arrests. A severely mentally ill inmate needs to be segregated and watched constantly. Often, however, no arrest is made. But for their own good, the person with mental illness needs to be hospitalized.
> > > >
> > > > Eight years ago, a busy week for the Bonneville County Prosecutor's Office meant handling one or two civil commitment cases. But when Bruce Pickett became prosecutor, he noticed civil commitments were on the rise. So, he began tracking them. So far this year, Bonneville County has averaged nearly four per week.
> > > >
> > > > Each case must be judged by two state-designated examiners. Because many of these folks are indigent, taxpayers bear those costs, plus hospital and doctor's fees. The increase in cases means the Behavioral Health Center often can't handle them all. Several times this year, deputies have transported mentally ill folks who committed no crimes to hospitals in Pocatello, Twin Falls and Boise. So, cutting budgets on the front end is resulting in more expense -- not to mention a healthy dose of human misery -- on the back end.
> > > >
> > > > Jessica Hill isn't surprised. A licensed social worker, Hill said the agency she works for has fewer clients because of budget cuts. The need for services, however, has not gone down.
> > > >
> > > > But Hill sees this from another perspective. She's also an Idaho Falls police officer and SWAT team member. Too often, Hill said, officers encounter the mentally ill in full crisis mode. Many of these folks, Hill said, tell police they no longer qualify for services.
> > > >
> > > > "I knew this was going to happen," Hill said. "It's not a surprise to me whatsoever."
> > > >
> > > > Idaho Gov. C.L. "Butch" Otter has overseen a massive reduction in state government, something he describes as "the new normal."
> > > >
> > > > Let's be clear, then, about what "the new normal" really looks like to those who get to deal with the consequences of the politicians' numbers crunching:
> > > >
> > > > - It looks like Gerald Simpson, a man with no history of violence, opening fire on a stranger.
> > > >
> > > > - It looks like Scott Daniel Parker leaving the house armed with automatic weapons and mad as hell.
> > > >
> > > > - It looks like the guy using his own feces to draw pictures on jailhouse walls.
> > > >
> > > > - It looks like the little old lady who once had a social worker to help keep her on medications, but who now must go it alone. Sometimes that works. Sometimes a sheriff's deputy wades through months of accumulated garbage and animal waste in her living room so he can drive her to the only hospital with room to treat her, in Boise.
> > > >
> > > > Idaho is building a considerable budget surplus. Already, some Republicans are saying they want to hand it over to corporations and rich folks through income tax cuts.
> > > >
> > > > The first job of government, however, is to protect its citizenry.
> > > >
> > > > Clearly, Otter's "new normal" isn't doing that. Lawmakers need to fully restore the mental health budget cuts of the past three years.
> > > >
> > > > Before things really turn ugly.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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