[Vision2020] evil in Tucson

Mon Jan 10 15:13:39 PST 2011

Hi Andreas,

Have to disagree a bit here.

Words have consequences, and rhetoric shapes reality.

Regardless of Loughner's situation.

Warren Hayman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>
To: "the lockshop" <lockshop at pull.twcbc.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] evil in Tucson

As it happens, I mostly agree with you here. The rhetoric had nothing
to do with the shooting; Laughner was just nuts. However, I think
Conor Friedersdorf makes a good point here:

"Since Barack Obama took office, prominent voices on the right have
called him an ally of Islamist radicals in their Grand Jihad against
America, a radical Kenyan anti-colonialist, a man who pals around with
terrorists and used a financial crisis to deliberately weaken America,
an usurper who was born abroad and isn’t even eligible to be
president, a guy who has somehow made it so that it’s okay for black
kids to beat up white kids on buses, etc. I haven’t even touched on
the conspiracy theories of Glenn Beck. The birthers excepted, the
people making these chargers are celebrated by movement conservatives
– they’re given book deals, awards, and speaking engagements.

If all of these charges were true, a radicalized citizenry would be an
appropriate response. But even the conservatives who defend Palin,
Beck, Limbaugh, D’Souza, McCarthy, and so many others don’t behave as
if they believe all the nonsense they assert. The strongest case
against these people isn’t that their rhetoric inspires political
violence. It’s that they frequently utter indefensible nonsense. The
problem isn’t their tone. It’s that the substance of what they’re
saying is so blinkered that it isn’t even taken seriously by their
ideological allies (even if they’re too cowardly, mercenary or team
driven to admit as much)."

http://theamericanscene.com/2011/01/10/tone-versus-substance

-- ACS

On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 11:40 AM, the lockshop <lockshop at pull.twcbc.com> 
wrote:
> I assume that by violent rhetoric you would include comments made by those
> who are the last word in "viable presidential candidate."
>
> "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said in
> Philadelphia last night. “Because from what I understand, folks in Philly
> like a good brawl..."
>
> I guess from now on instead of targeting voters, candidates, or positions 
> we
> will speak of humanely capturing them to returned to a safe area where 
> they
> can live out the remained of their lives surrounded by love and comfort.
>
> g
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 10:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] evil in Tucson
>> Furthermore . . .
>>
>> The ONLY person that should be held directly responsible for the murders
>> in Tuscon is Jared Loughner.
>>
>> However . . .
>>
>> The grandizing by Phelps of such heinous murderous activity as that
>> committed by Loughner takes on an even worse stench when coupled with the
>> "target map" and comments like "Don't retread, reload" and "Second
>> amendment remedies" feed the imbalanced minds of those like Jared 
>> Loughner
>> with a false sense of patriotism when they commit such acts.
>>
>> Certainly, average, well-adjust people can easily distinguish between
>> controversial commentary and violent rhetoric, but . . .
>>
>> How many Jared Loughners are we to confront before sources of such
>> rhetoric are called in to account?
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, January 10, 2011 9:47 am, keely emerinemix wrote:
>>>
>>> It took all of five minutes, Visionaires, for my conscience to to remind
>>> me that describing even someone as evil as Fred Phelps as less than 
>>> human
>>> was wrong of me. I believe his works to be those of an evil man,
>>> something I can't imagine anyone not named "Phelps" would disagree with
>>> and something I think Scripture would affirm, but I used language in
>>> anger
>>> that I have criticized in others, and I'm sorry for it.
>>>
>>> I trust that if Dale Courtney uses my initial Phelps post on his blog,
>>> he'll have the integrity to refer to this one as well.
>>>
>>> Keely
>>> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: kjajmix1 at msn.com
>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 09:35:11 -0800
>>> Subject: [Vision2020] evil in Tucson
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My brother in Tucson says that unmitigated barbarian evil in the form of
>>> the Rev. Fred Phelps will descend later this week on the city as the
>>> first
>>> victims of the shooting will be released from the hospital and funerals
>>> for the dead will begin. Phelps will be praising God for the massacre
>>> and
>>> lauding the work of Jared Lee Loughner.
>>>
>>> The description of Phelps above is mine; my angry and distraught
>>> brother's
>>> words were utterly unfit for quoting, just as Phelps' is utterly unfit 
>>> to
>>> claim the title "Reverend," or even the designation "human."
>>>
>>> Keely
>>> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to 
>> change
>> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
>>
>> - Unknown
>>
>>
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