[Vision2020] House Bill 117 - State Sovereignty - FederalHealth Care . . .

[Joe Campbell]

It is a counterexample to Donovan's argument. 

In a counterexample, what you do is you offer an argument with the same structure as the one you are critiquing but with an obviously false conclusion. 

That shows that the premises of the first argument (Donovan's in this case) don't support the conclusion.

The illogic of my argument, which you admit, illustrates the the illogic of Donovan's argument. Thanks for pointing that out!

But don't believe me. I've only been teaching logic for 20 years!



On Feb 17, 2011, at 12:12 PM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:

> You teach logic. Where is the logic in this statement?
> Roger
> -----Original message-----
> From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 07:56:59 -0800
> To: Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] House Bill 117 - State Sovereignty - FederalHealth Care . . .
> 
>> I don't see anything in the constitution about the Internet.
>> 
>> Therefore, Donovan's last post is unconstitutional.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 16, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> "The state government can compel you to buy automobile liability insurance if you chose to own and to operate a motor vehicle. "--Art Deco 
>>> 
>>> This is a completely different situation on several levels;
>>> 
>>> First, there is a difference between a state requiring you to demonstrate while operating a heavy piece of equipment you have the means to pay for any damage to property, versus that of the federal government requiring you with buy a particular product.
>>> 
>>> I can escape the insurance requirement in Idaho by either moving out of state, choosing not to drive, or I can save up enough money to demonstrate I can pay for damages i may incur while operating a piece of heavy equipment on public highways and roadways.
>>> 
>>> Federal Mandated Health Insurance I cannot do the same thing. I cannot move out of state.  I cannot disown or park my body (I am stuck with).  And I can never demonstrate that I have enough money to pay for reasonable health problems, and that could be in the millions very easily.
>>> 
>>> And of course there is the Constitutional issue that it reserves all rights not listed in it to the states. I don't see anything in the constitution giving the Federal Government the authority to require people to buy a particular product. Although I think the government can get around this issue in the same way as it did in 80s by changing the drinking age to 21, forcing the states to comply by withholding federal dollars.
>>> 
>>> I personally think it is a bad idea to have the federal government be able to make you buy something. Especially when its goal of providing health care to everyone will not succeed this way. The only way to get everyone to have access to health care is to tax people and provide it, just like every other service the government provides.
>>> 
>>> Donovan Arnold 
>>> 
>>> --- On Wed, 2/16/11, Art Deco <deco at moscow.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> From: Art Deco <deco at moscow.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] House Bill 117 - State Sovereignty - FederalHealth Care . . .
>>> To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 3:36 PM
>>> 
>>> The state government can compel you to buy automobile liability insurance if you chose to own and to operate a motor vehicle.  The courts have ruled that this is a legitimate power of the government.  It will be interesting to see how this issue as it relates to health insurance is argued in the courts.
>>> 
>>> w.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Donovan Arnold
>>> To: Moscow Vision 2020 ; Tom Hansen
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 3:07 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] House Bill 117 - State Sovereignty - FederalHealth Care . . .
>>> 
>>> I have to agree that the government does not have the authority to compel you to participate in buying health Insurance or any product or service from a private company.  Especially when it is such a rip-off and there is no regulation on what these insurance companies can collectively decide they want you to pay once you are required by to purchase it from them. They could charge $500-$1500 a month and you would have to pay it. If they wanted to tax you and provide access to health care that would be within their legal authority because that is what the government does.
>>> 
>>> However, I don't agree with the wording of the bill that employers should be allowed to get away with not offering any health insurance without raising their minimum paid wages. You cannot afford health insurance on $7.25 an hour.   Hell, you cannot even afford quality health insurance at $12.50 an hour working 50 hours a week when the government is skimming 40 cents on every dollar you sweat blood and tears to make. Employers should have some basic responsibility for the welfare of their employers especially when many employers put their employees at risk for lots of health problems. Working conditions need to be beyond third world standards here in Idaho. Idahoan workers deserve at least this much. Too bad the Governor of Idaho and the majority of the current legislature doesn't agree.
>>> 
>>> Donovan Arnold
>>> 
>>> --- On Wed, 2/16/11, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
>>> Subject: [Vision2020] House Bill 117 - State Sovereignty - Federal Health Care . . .
>>> To: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 11:43 AM
>>> 
>>> Has passed the Idaho House by a vote of 49-20.
>>> 
>>> http://moscowcares.com/idaho/2011/HB0117_020911.htm
>>> 
>>> Tom Hansen
>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change
>>> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
>>> 
>>> - Unknown
>>> 
>>> 
>>> =======================================================
>>> List services made available by First Step Internet, 
>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
>>>               http://www.fsr.net                       
>>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> =======================================================
>>> 
>>> =======================================================
>>> List services made available by First Step Internet, 
>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
>>>               http://www.fsr.net                       
>>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> =======================================================
>>> 
>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>> 
>>> =======================================================
>>> List services made available by First Step Internet, 
>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
>>>               http://www.fsr.net                       
>>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> =======================================================
>>> 
>>> =======================================================
>>> List services made available by First Step Internet, 
>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
>>>              http://www.fsr.net                       
>>>         mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> =======================================================
>> 
>>