[Vision2020] No Guts, Misquotes, & Mark Driscoll

[Dan Carscallen]

I actually find Paul's posts to the vizzz quite engaging and thought provoking, and it seems to me, whether I agree with him or not, he's got several drawers in his world, at least up to somewhere around J or K

Your pal,

DC

On Aug 23, 2011, at 19:02, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:

> Your world must be very boring, Mr. Rumelhart . . . stereo-typing everybody into two limited sets of parameters, either drawer A or drawer B.
> 
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
> 
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>  
> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the Realist adjusts his sails."
> 
> - Unknown
> 
> 
> On Aug 23, 2011, at 18:49, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> While I'm on the subject of Opposite Land, it's usually the right-wing fundamentalists that are trying to push for harsher punishments and it's usually the more liberal community saying "hey, hold on there!  He's got rights, too, ya know!"
>> 
>> Oh, well.  Maybe if I get all fired up about staying here in Opposite Land I'll suddenly end up back home.  Worth a try, anyway.
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> On 08/23/2011 12:49 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:
>>> 
>>> Remind us again, Mr. Rumelhart -
>>> 
>>> How does Doug Wilson go about defending . . .
>>> 
>>> http://www.tomandrodna.com/CR_2005_02027
>>> 
>>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>> 
>>> Tom Hansen
>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>  
>>> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the Realist adjusts his sails."
>>> 
>>> - Unknown
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 23, 2011, at 12:19, "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> It has been the so-called liberals on this site who have raised the loudest cry against child sexual abuse, spousal sexual abuse, and similar criminal abuses.  That such liberals are against such abhorrent practices doesn't mean that they are against freedom of sexual expression between consenting adults.
>>>>  
>>>> On the other hand, the conservatives, here and elsewhere, have been mostly mute on these child abuse subjects. 
>>>>  
>>>> In fact, Paul, you were one of the conservatives defending allowing admitted serial pedophiles such as Steven Sitler the absolute right to marry and to make children. The conservatives, for example, are more interested in railing against gays and gay marriage or at least questioning the value of allowing such marriages than taking a vigorous stand against child sexual molestation and exploitation.
>>>>  
>>>> The ultimate hypocrite, Douglas Wilson, has, in his now diminishing pseudo-ministry, been a screeching railer against pornography.  But all of a sudden faced with declining cult membership, interest in himself and crackpot quasi-theology, and most importantly to him, declining revenue, has resorted to the always successful formula "Sex Sells."  In doing so Wilson hypocritically endorses and promulgates the notion that Mark Driscoll's Blue Movies from Jesus visions are of important spiritual and doctrinal value to his Reformed community despite the fact that the possibility of any visions from Christ are in complete conflict with Wilson's avowed cessationist theological dogma.
>>>>  
>>>> Perhaps, you didn't understand what I wrote before:
>>>>  
>>>> Almost everyone has sexual fantasies of various kinds and                   intensities.  Mark Driscoll is entitled to his.  But for him to claim they are visions from God is delusional, and to broadcast and to celebrate them as such is beyond outré.  And when crackpots/con artists like Wilson who intentionally and for profit promulgate such delusions and celebrations, especially when contrary to their alleged theological beliefs in the name of their alleged God, one can easily see why Rose proclaims: "Worse than anything I could imagine."
>>>>  
>>>> Here is where I disagree with Rose's  "Worse than anything I could imagine."  From my point of view and state of knowledge, my opinion is there is nothing that I could imagine that Wilson would not do to further, to defend, or to protect himself, his sources of revenue, his unquenchable desire for attention and admiration, his desire for power and control, his will to establish a theocracy, etc.
>>>>  
>>>> Paul, you write:
>>>>  
>>>> "I must have crossed over into Opposite Land last night when I went to sleep."
>>>>  
>>>> Not such much.  Just another of your cheap rhetorical tricks of twisting what has been said to set up a bale of straw to attack.  But I agree in a way with the quote, except that "last night" should read "many years ago" and "Opposite Land" should read "Just to Be Contrary Land."
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> w.
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> From: Paul Rumelhart
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:47 AM
>>>> To: Art Deco ; Moscow Vision 2020
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] No Guts, Misquotes, & Mark Driscoll
>>>> 
>>>> Odd.
>>>> 
>>>> Traditionally, it's the liberal community's job to defend all things sexual in nature from the ire of offended puritanical right-wing fundamentalists.
>>>> 
>>>> I must have crossed over into Opposite Land last night when I went to sleep.  How do you get back?  Find the portal and travel away from it?  Don't look for it at all and fall into it by mistake?
>>>> 
>>>> I hope I figure it out soon.  On the plus side, Facebook is a lot more private here and Microsoft is working hard to get Windows on 10% of user's desktops.
>>>> 
>>>> Paul
>>>> 
>>>> From: Art Deco <deco at moscow.com>
>>>> To: Moscow Vision 2020 <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:14 AM
>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] No Guts, Misquotes, & Mark Driscoll
>>>> 
>>>> With all the buzz about the Christ Church Cult's scheduling of sexually obsessed so-called pastor Mark Driscoll who receives pornographic visions from Jesus, a couple of interest comments have passed almost unnoticed.
>>>>  
>>>> Vera White commented briefly about the latest Wilson-steps-on-his-dick-again snafu in last week's Ink.  [See complete Ink comment below].
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> One paragraph is of special interest:
>>>>  
>>>> The INKster tried for two days to reach Wilson for comment, but was told he was busy with back-to-back                           meetings. She did however talk to Assistant Pastor Mike Lawyer Friday who explained the conference might attract "people from all over the world" and the agenda would include a Minister's Conference for men titled "The Puritan Five," and for females a session called "Dangerous Women."
>>>>  
>>>> First, Wilson, whose invitation to Driscoll and inept, illogical                       defense of that invitation has been widely criticized and lampooned in the Reformed Community of which Wilson is the alleged leader(at least for                       now), hasn't got the courage to discuss it very far outside his own cloistered circle. 
>>>>  
>>>> Second, a friend who is not on V2020 but reads the Ink asked me if it was possible that Mike Lawyer possibly misspoke or was misquoted in the above paragraph.  She wonders instead of "people from all over the world", what was really should have appeared was "perverts from all over the world."
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> w.
>>>> ____________________________
>>>>  
>>>> Vera White, The Ink, Moscow-Pullman Daily News
>>>>  
>>>> ....
>>>> The INKster had never heard of Pastor Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church in Seattle until the outraged postings started appearing on Vision2020 th
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