[Vision2020] Impasses lead to shutdown of FAA
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Mon Aug 1 19:09:47 PDT 2011
I agree for the most part, but I'd suggest leaving a few
strategically-located military bases that would allow us to project
power should we need to. Phase the other ones out over the next decade
or so.
I agree wholeheartedly about Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya.
Paul
On 08/01/2011 06:59 PM, Sunil Ramalingam wrote:
> Seems to me the starting place should be the THREE wars we're
> fighting. That Obama would argue that we're not at war in Libya is
> loathesome.
>
> Let's start there, and then start shutting down the over-one-hundred
> military bases we have around the world, and looking at the rest of
> the military budget.
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 16:45:45 -0700
> From: godshatter at yahoo.com
> To: jborden at datawedge.com; thansen at moscow.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Impasses lead to shutdown of FAA
>
> While we're on the subject, as an aside, this basically comes down to
> the problem that always stymies cuts in government. Cuts hurt. They
> may be worth it in the long run, but unless they are truly fluff they
> will adversely affect someone. Despite that fact, I think that
> valuable services will have to be reduced or eliminated if we are
> serious about getting this debt mess under control. The problem is,
> elected officials don't want to vote for spending cuts that affect
> their constituencies and people don't want to see their favorite
> services cut back. So, the question is: exactly how serious are we
> about cutting spending in government?
>
> I'm rather hoping this issue will put the idea of cutting services
> back on the nation's consciousness. If we as a populace realized that
> we have a lot of control over what actually happens, we might have a
> chance of reducing or eliminating some of the over-reaching programs
> that have sprung up over the past decade or so, such as the Patriot
> Act, warrantless wiretapping, fighting two wars, etc. It might also
> have the added benefit of reducing the current insane debt level that
> is causing us so much trouble. But we can't do it if we all fight
> every cut that has consequences, just because it has some drawbacks.
> It can't be done without making some sacrifices. We just need to do
> some cost/benefit analyses and make our choices wisely. Avoiding the
> hard decisions is what got us into this mess in the first place.
>
> Paul
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
> *To:* Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Sent:* Monday, August 1, 2011 1:11 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Impasses lead to shutdown of FAA
>
> Sometimes, Mr. Hansen, you need to better explain your “heart of the
> matter” instead of leaving it to be summarized by sarcastic
> dismissals. I didn’t tie you to the “liberal/Democratic” … but it
> doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see you’re further left than I am.
> However, anyone left to simply “read beyond the short comment” (and
> thus filling in the gaps with their own interpretations instead of
> your ACTUAL opinion) would probably just peg you as a card-carrying
> member of the progressive movement.
> It’s NOT “only logical”. By this are you saying that EVERY SINGLE
> FAA PROGRAM/EMPLOYEE IS TIED TO SAFETY? How much of the FAA do we
> actually NEED vs. WANT? Are we really so trusting of our government
> and its use of our monies that we simply default to an answer of,
> “GIVE THE FAA EVERY PENNY IT NEEDS, OR LIGHTS WILL START FLICKERING ON
> RUNWAYS”.
> How much of the FAA can be turned over to local states or local
> airports, instead of a federal agency? How much of the FAA is a
> social agenda, as opposed to a NECESSARY service?
> http://www.faa.gov/about/budget/
> Take a peek at that and some of the budgets they’ve gone through…
> (though I would tend to look more towards the 2012 budget stuff rather
> than the older (2008 and prior) ones… as recent budgets have been
> bloated/blurred with the stimulus packages and federal grant money… )
> “Reduction of Environment Impacts”… is THAT safety?
> “Improved Public Transit Experience”…. is THAT safety?
> “Improved Networks to accommodate Pedestrians and Bicycles?”
> (Really?). Is THAT safety?
> “Research Carbon Emissions, Improved Energy Efficiency, Reduce
> Dependence on Oil”… Is that safety?
> ** Note: I’m skimming the proposed 2012 budget for the FAA… I haven’t
> read the details beyond this… I’m taking this stuff at face value... …
> but just at face value, I don’t see a lot of links between these items
> and having the runway lights flicker on final approach.
> I should also be clear in my position here: I’m a fiscal conservative
> and social liberal… I don’t lean so far right that I don’t see a role
> for the FAA at all… but that doesn’t mean that we should be so
> complacent about spending that it isn’t scrutinized at least a LITTLE
> more before we start blindly start tossing around the notion that
> “cutting spending directly ties to a decrease in safety”.
> (As a side note, Reagan fired something like 10,000 Air Traffic
> Controllers in 1981… that would just about represent the most EXTREME
> tie to safety I can think of, and I don’t remember reading about any
> airplanes falling out of the sky as a result… )
> Jay
> *From:*Tom Hansen [mailto:thansen at moscow.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, August 01, 2011 11:49 AM
> *To:* Jay Borden
> *Cc:* Mike Deleve; vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Impasses lead to shutdown of FAA
> Sometimes, Mr. Borden, you've got to read beyond a short comment to
> get to the heart of the matter.
> In my opinion, barring any evidence to the contrary, laying off 4,000
> FAA employees, coupled with a drastic FAA budget cut, WILL adversely
> impact safety. It's only logical.
> Simply because a liberal/Democrat says something, DOES NOT mean that I
> am in lockstep agreement with him/her.
> OK?
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to
> change and the Realist adjusts his sails."
> - Unknown
>
> On Aug 1, 2011, at 11:39, "Jay Borden" <jborden at datawedge.com
> <mailto:jborden at datawedge.com>> wrote:
>
> Ok… I get it… I’m a fiscal conservative and therefore my legit
> questions will be automatically met with snippy and “hand-waving”
> answers from the left.
> But the article that was POSTED FOR ME TO READ said that the
> “shutdown will not affect airline safety”… Yet in response to my
> question, folks are jumping on issues of SAFETY.
> Either the folks who snipped back at my LEGITIMATE question didn’t
> read the article that was posted up/shared, or they believe that
> it’s all lies…
> In either case, I’ll take the article at face value and assume
> that the folks that are furloughed are not part of a “safety”
> equation (however that equal sign pencils out).
> How much do we ACTUALLY NEED some of this stuff? As a nation,
> we’ve taken such BROAD strokes to government and spending, we
> don’t actually look to see how the pennies add up to dollars.
> When my wife and I look at our home budget, we don’t just look at
> the BROAD spending we do in our home, we look at the NITTY GRITTY
> pennies… (well, we obviously can’t cut FOOD out of our budget, but
> maybe we can spend less name-brand cereal and get just the
> Malto-Meal stuff?)
> It’s a larger question…. (and keep in mind that I had my VFR
> rating, and was on the verge of my IFR before I let it all lapse
> just after 9/11)… how much of this needs to be kept?
> Jay
> *From:*Mike Deleve [mailto:coolerfixer at roadrunner.com]
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 30, 2011 4:37 PM
> *To:* Jay Borden
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Impasses lead to shutdown of FAA
> Well Jay-
> These are the people that do those unimportant things like
> accident investigation, aircraft safety inspections and a really
> dumb one. Licensing of pilots. My application will be delayed even
> further now. If your privileges expire in the time frame that the
> FAA has no authority, you can no longer fly. Period. The airlines
> may be hit hard with expiring commercial pilot licenses. This is
> no small thing. You can also bet a certain moron senator from
> Oklahoma is involved in this because of his reckless activity,
> just to extract some payback.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:*Jay Borden <mailto:jborden at datawedge.com>
> *To:*Tom Hansen <mailto:thansen at moscow.com> ; Moscow Vision
> 2020 <mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:*Monday, July 25, 2011 5:53 PM
> *Subject:*Re: [Vision2020] Impasses lead to shutdown of FAA
> According to the article, “the shutdown will not affect
> airline safety”… then what exactly are these 4000 people that
> are on the payroll doing?
> And… do we need them?
> (Generally, I’m in favor of many of these government/agency
> shutdowns… you’ll never really know how much government you
> can live without until you wake up and never even realize it
> was missing)
> Jay
> *From:*vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> <mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com>
> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of *Tom Hansen
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 23, 2011 8:53 AM
> *To:* Moscow Vision 2020
> *Subject:* [Vision2020] Impasses lead to shutdown of FAA
> Jus' another attempt by our friendly, people-oriented Tea . .
> . er, uh . . . I mean Republican (it's gettin harder to tell
> them apart without DNA) Party to shut down 'nother one of them
> commie pinko socialist unions.
> Courtesy of The Boston Globe at:
> http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2011/07/23/impasses_lead_to_shutdown_of_faa/?page=full
> ------------------------------
>
>
> Impasses lead to shutdown of FAA
>
> WASHINGTON - Efforts to avert a shutdown of the Federal
> Aviation Administration failed yesterday amid a disagreement
> over a $16.5 million cut in subsidies to 13 rural communities,
> ensuring that at midnight nearly 4,000 people will be
> temporarily out of work and federal airline ticket taxes will
> be suspended.
> Lawmakers were unable to resolve a partisan dispute over an
> extension of the agency’s operating authority.
> The subsidy cut was included by Republicans in a House bill
> extending operating authority for the FAA, which has a $16
> billion budget. Senate Democrats refused to accept the House
> bill with the cuts, and Republican senators refused to accept
> a Democratic bill without it. Lawmakers then adjourned for the
> weekend.
> But underlying the dispute on rural air service subsidies was
> a standoff between the GOP-controlled House and the
> Democratic-controlled Senate over a provision in long-term
> funding legislation for the FAA that would make it more
> difficult for airline and railroad workers to unionize.
> Obama administration officials have said the shutdown will not
> affect air safety. Air traffic controllers will remain on the
> job. But airlines will lose the authority to collect about
> $200 million a week in ticket taxes that go into a trust fund
> that pays for FAA programs.
> FAA employees whose jobs are paid for with trust fund money
> will be furloughed, including nearly 1,000 workers at the
> agency’s headquarters in Washington, 647 workers at FAA’s
> technology and research center in Atlantic City, and 124
> workers at the agency’s training center in Oklahoma City.
> “These are real people with families who do not deserve to be
> put out of work during these tough economic times,’’ FAA
> Administrator Randy Babbitt said in a statement.
> Airline passengers could see a big savings on their airfares,
> but the situation is complicated. Federal taxes on a $300
> round-trip airfare are about $61, but about half of that is
> airport and security fees that will continue to be collected,
> according to the Air Transport Association.
> Airlines, alerted earlier this week that FAA authority could
> expire, have been making adjustments to their computer systems
> and websites so that at midnight, taxes will no longer be
> added to airfares, the association said.
> One airline, US Airways, was already raising its fares. Other
> airlines may try to reap a windfall profit from the tax holiday.
> Passengers who bought their tickets before the shutdown but
> who travel during the shutdown may wind up due a refund,
> Treasury Department spokeswoman Sandra Salstrom said. That’s
> because it’s not clear whether the government can keep taxes
> for travel that takes place during a period when the
> government doesn’t have authority to collect taxes, she said.
> Likewise, it’s not clear if passengers who buy tickets after
> midnight with no taxes included will wind up owing taxes if
> their travel takes place after FAA’s operating authority is
> restored, she said.
> Long-term funding authority for the FAA expired in 2007.
> Unable to agree on new long-term funding legislation for the
> agency, Congress has kept the FAA operating through a series
> of 20 short-term extension bills. The extensions had been
> routine until this week.
> The Senate passed a long-term bill in February; and the House
> a different version in April. Lawmakers have resolved most of
> the differences between the bills, but no progress has been
> made on a half dozen or more controversial issues.
> Republicans said Senate majority leader Harry Reid, a Nevada
> Democrat, is insisting that a labor provision in the House
> bill sought by the airline industry must be dropped before
> negotiations can go forward.
> The labor provision would overturn a National Mediation Board
> rule approved last year that allows airline and railroad
> employees to form a union by a simple majority of those
> voting. Under the old rule, workers who didn’t vote were
> treated as “no’’ votes. The Republicans complain that the new
> rule reverses 75 years of precedent to favor labor unions.
> Democrats and union officials say the change puts airline and
> railroad elections under the same democratic rules required
> for unionizing all other companies.
> The White House warned in March that President Obama might
> veto the bill if the labor provision is retained.
> Just before he blocked the Democrats’ extension bill, Senator
> Orrin Hatch, a Utah Republican, said he shared House
> Republicans’ frustration “that favors to organized labor have
> overshadowed the prospects for long-term FAA’’ funding.
> Another unresolved issue involves about $200 million in air
> services subsidies to rural communities. The program was
> created when airlines were deregulated in 1978 to ensure
> continued air service on less profitable routes to isolated
> communities. The House long-term FAA bill would eliminate the
> program except for airports in Alaska.
> ------------------------------
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects
> it to change and the Realist adjusts his sails."
> - Unknown
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