[Vision2020] Postcardgate: final thoughts

[keely emerinemix]

Joe Campbell writes:

"I have problems, too, with otherwise well meaning
liberals/progressives whose eyes gloss over when issues of religions
come up, who put all religions in the same pile because they haven't
given the matter a lot of thought . . ."

I couldn't agree more, and that weak, pallid "tolerance" of bad behavior borne of 
disdain for religion is largely responsible for the flourishing of religious bigotry
on the Palouse.

Excellent point, Joe.  

Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com




> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 06:09:01 -0700
> From: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: [Vision2020] Postcardgate: final thoughts
> 
> I feel bad about my initial post, copying the words of Lloyd Knerr,
> the Pastor at Bouma's Freeze Church, and turning them back on the
> folks at Freeze Church. This is the kind of thing that works well if
> you're commenting on a philosophy paper but not so well if you're
> talking in an open forum about someone's religious beliefs. I'll just
> say a few more things to set the record straight and then I'll go back
> into exile since I'm up to my neck in work and the real reason for my
> initial post was to avoid doing it.
> 
> 1/ I apologize if I offended anyone from Freeze Church. I don't think
> being a member of Freeze Church or Christ Church or whatever -- that
> is, a church with a dogmatic pastor who disrespects all religious
> views other than those like his own -- makes one unfit for office, or
> an otherwise bad person. I really don't mean anything against the
> members of those churches and if their pastors would stop talking, so
> would I. Most of those folks are likely decent human beings, Bouma
> included. Of course, not all the members of these churches are decent
> human beings but that's true of all churches. If all you know is Mr. X
> is a member of Church Y, in general, that's not enough to pass
> judgment on Mr. X.
> 
> 2/ I think in general it is inappropriate to ask a political candidate
> about his religious beliefs. It is irrelevant whether Obama is a
> Muslim or Bouma is a Christian, for instance. Many Republicans are
> hypocritical since they say the former is relevant yet the latter is
> irrelevant and that kind of hypocrisy drives me up the wall. Note,
> however, that I said it is "in general" inappropriate. When the pastor
> of your church claims that Mormons who say they believe in God are
> liars and you are a candidate for state senate and have not spoken out
> against your idiotic pastor, it is perfectly appropriate to ask
> whether or not you share those beliefs. Bouma is way off base by not
> talking about this issue. I think that people are right to draw the
> conclusion that he does share those beliefs and if he doesn't, he
> should set the record straight. If you go to a church that practices
> hate speech and then run for election, you should expect some fallout.
> 
> 3/ The Bouma postcard is a sleazy campaign trick, up there with the
> Christ Church bigot sign (followed by similarly slimy letters to the
> editor from GMA leadership) and the 11th hour, slimy letters to the
> Daily News editor that cost Gary Schroader the last election. But one
> important difference is that NO ONE thought the postcards were real.
> The postcards were a clear parody. That doesn't justify the postcards
> but to say this stunt was worse than the other crap I noted is absurd.
> 
> 4/ I consider myself to be very religious, though currently I don't
> belong to any particular denomination. I have a problem with calling
> myself a "Christian" since most Christians don't speak out against the
> current dogmatic, overly political form of Christianity that is
> practiced in our country. And getting worse by the day. I don't have a
> problem with Christ but unfortunately his name has been co-opted by
> people who are either power hungry or have nothing going for them but
> the fear of death.
> 
> 5/ I have problems, too, with otherwise well meaning
> liberals/progressives whose eyes gloss over when issues of religions
> come up, who put all religions in the same pile because they haven't
> given the matter a lot of thought. Other than a steadfast belief in
> God, the only religious view I hold firmly is that of religious
> skepticism: No one knows jack about the matter. Not Christians, not
> Jews, not Mormons, not atheists. If you think otherwise, contact me
> offlist, we'll have a conversation and I'll show you that you're
> wrong.
> 
> We all, or most of us at least, have our opinions about religion and
> most religious views should be respected. Most but not all. Which
> ones, you might ask? The ones that respect the others. The clearest
> indication of whether or not your religious view is acceptable is
> whether you allow others the right to hold their views on the matter.
> For this reason I have an intolerance for those who group all
> religions together, whether they think ALL religions are irrational,
> or ALL religious topics are off base, or ALL questions about a
> candidates religious beliefs are off limits. Not all religions are the
> same. Some are dangerous and some are not in keeping with the basic
> tenets of our democracy. I understand that well meaning
> liberals/progressives find the topics difficult to speak about but
> that is precisely why so many power hungry people have been able to
> exploit the general fear of death and use religion for their own
> profit and political gain. That is why we are in such a mess. Better
> to talk about the issues in public in the uncomfortable, clumsy way
> that I've been doing than to remain silent and let lunatics run the
> asylum. We need to talk more about religion, not less.
> 
> 6/ I'm relatively certain that most of you don't give a rip about what
> I think but I had to get this off my chest.
> 
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